My current cable package has several hundred channels and the opportunity to see any of the previously mentioned films is now negligible by comparison.
And it's pretty amazing, that with all those channels, there is nothing good to watch! Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 19:44:28 -0700 From: [email protected] Subject: Re: [MOPO] Expanding hobby? To: [email protected] I think that the general public knows that there are people who collect posters and that some of them are very valuable. If the number of people in the hobby were to double or to decrease by 50% we would all notice it. However, comparing our hobby to all the other mainstream collectable hobbies from a "market share" standpoint we would still be part of the 1% or less group either way. An analysis of how young people feel about classic posters or films difficult. It is hard to know how people would react if the potential for exposure to those films or posters was greater. When I was a child in 1960 there were constant broadcasts of Frankenstein; King Kong, Roy Rogers and King of the Rocketmen, etc. This was in an environment of 5 TV stations. My current cable package has several hundred channels and the opportunity to see any of the previously mentioned films is now negligible by comparison. ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Rosen To: [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 7:31 PM Subject: Re: [MOPO] Expanding hobby? Movie poster collectors are a small minority of the population, Rich. ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Halegua Comic Art To: [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 10:19 PM Subject: Re: [MOPO] Expanding hobby? yes Dave, but they are a small minority of the population that is the problem At 07:14 PM 7/21/2010, Dave Rosen wrote: My daughter is 25 years old, works for a publisher of graphic novels and helps run an art gallery. We talk about classic films all the time. The last time we chatted she told me how much she enjoyed watching Bus Stop. She's not put off if a movie is 50 years old and/or shot in black and white. She also enjoys 70s grindhouse fare as do many of her friends. Just a couple of weeks ago a small cinema opened in Montreal specializing in vintage exploitation, grindhouse and arthouse films. I know she's not your typical 20-something but the way some of you generalize about her generation you'd think they were all know-nothings who are only waiting for the next Iron Man movie to come out. I have the feeling many of you are unaware that there is a significant number of young people who are knowledgeable and, yes, DO care about the history of popular culture. Modern information technology has made older films more accessible than ever. Furthermore, in Montreal we are currently in the middle of a festival, Fantasia, that specializes in showing a wide variety of genre films. The fest, which is internationally renowned, attracts thousands of people to soldout shows and grows by leaps and bounds every year, just honored Ken Russell and will be ending next week with a showing of the recently restored version of Metropolis with music accompaniment by a full symphony orchestra. Maybe it's because I'm somewhat tied in to the arts scene in Montreal (which I have to believe is somewhat similar to arts scenes in other major North American cities), but I know a LOT of young people who care about this stuff. Maybe in mainstream America that's not the case but on the other hand, mainstream America thinks Justin Bieber (a Canadian, I'm embarrassed to say) is a great talent. I think your doom and gloom is misplaced because most of you, from what I have gleaned, are not aware of these young people, some of whom will be the collectors of the future (or are already, since many of my clients are starting to skew to this younger demographic). Sure, some stuff will fall by the wayside partly due to demographics and changing tastes. But there are a lot of people who will continue to discover this wonderful hobby as they come to realize these gorgeous scraps of paper that we already love are available to them, too. Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Halegua Comic Art To: [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 5:25 PM Subject: Re: [MOPO] Expanding hobby? While Richard is correct that most of us could not have seen Thief of Bagdad with Fairbanks in 1924, it is also correct that I saw this film at the tender age of 11 years old on PBS in NYC as I did silents like Caligari, Metropolis, Siegfried, Phantom of the Opera and many more. Unihorror was regularly shown on TV as were 100s or 1000s of classic movies as well. So while we didn't see these movies in 1931 or 1941, we did in 1961, 71 and beyond. The difference today is this: young folks (under 35) aren't interested in watching b&w movies, and movies "without words" as I hear many young'uns call silents are as far from their viewing schedule as I am from the Ukraine. As such, these types of films are not a part of their public consciousness as they are of ours. However my good pal Peter is also partially incorrect in his post. It isn't that the hobby is imploding entirely - it's that the vintage part of the hobby is. These younger collectors who come in to the hobby want Star Wars, or Toy Story, or Pulp Fiction because they do go to contemporary films. They just aren't interested in "classics", and that doesn't just extend to old b&w movies. Most of them will never watch Ben Hur, or GWTW, and while they do all watch vintage cartoons (cartoons have a more timeless quality) I doubt many of these children understand they were made in the 30s & 40s. Unlike our generations, most of them don't know King Kong was first filmed in 1933, or that the Psycho that they know is not the Psycho that we know But it isn't limited to movie posters. Comics books, baseball cards, post cards and many other fields are experiencing the same loss of culture for all of the same reasons above. Boiled down to it's simplest terms, they aren't interested in history.. unless it's the history of Yoda or the Twilight Saga Rich At 01:34 PM 7/21/2010, Richard Evans wrote: "If you didn't see the movie when it first came out, and remember seeing the poster for it hanging in the theater lobby, then you might still appreciate the poster, but you are not going to have that gut-level strong nostalgic pull to fork over big bucks for it." I honestly can't think of a single poster I've bought that I was old enough to see at the cinema, and mostly I didn't even exist when the film was released. Isn't that the same for most of us? People passionately collecting 50's Sci-Fi aren't in their seventies, Todd and Jim Gresham aren't in their nineties, or Ken Schacter pushing a century. I flicked through Hollywood Posters 1 from 1990 the other night. Huge percentage of 20's and 30's material, extremely small amount of anything later, and it only got as recent as a Forbidden Planet 1 sht. I think it's much the same through to Hollywood Posters 6. I can imagine the hoots of derision when at some point not too much later someone had the crazy idea of suggesting 60s and even 70s posters could be sold at auction. Looking at those posters from the 20s, they are beautiful, but look irrelevant. Everything moves on, and I can't imagine there being the connection to the film or the style of artwork. It's the same with antiques/furniture. Edwardian and Victorian out, continued popularity of modern design, Mid Century, or earlier or later. Although what initially hooked me, the screening of the classics on TV in my youth isn't there to the same degree to hook young people, won't people who love film still exist and seek out and appreciate earlier movies ? (They may even learn to master subtitles and B&W.) And, aren't they likely to still find appeal in the art of whatever genres that will go in and out of fashion. Though yes, I wouldn't necessarily expect much from anyone, (in disposable cash or taste) until they reach their thirties. On 20 Jul 2010, at 21:50, James Richard wrote: Peter, I would tend to agree with your feeling that poster collecting is not expanding, logic seems to indicate it, but on the other hand you see some stuff that can't be otherwise explained. An example would be original posters for the Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings films. The prices for those posters, while not ultra-high, have remained firm, even though the first of those posters came out 10 years ago. Surely it is younger people buying/collecting those and similar items and keeping the prices up? I think the real question -- one that cannot yet be answered -- is how many of those younger buyers will *remain* movie poster collectors and, perhaps as they grow older, become interesting some of the great older posters? After all, great poster art is great poster art, regardless of when the film came out. But there is no denying that simple nostalgia is the *big* driver in all forms of memorabilia collecting. If you didn't see the movie when it first came out, and remember seeing the poster for it hanging in the theater lobby, then you might still appreciate the poster, but you are not going to have that gut-level strong nostalgic pull to fork over big bucks for it. -- JR peter contarino wrote: I think all of Ron’s questions are excellent and on point. I also think that the answer is “all the above”. The economy is awful, supply outweighs demand, the high-rollers have acquired many of their pieces and the younger generation(s)would rather text and tweet than watch a film(literally- I was at a theater recently and the kid a few seats in front of me texted for the better part of the film). And after all, like who, you know, would want to, like, watch a black and white film anyway…and stuff…dude. I don’t know whether the hobby is expanding; you guys would know more about that. My sense is that it is not. I can’t imagine it is bringing a lot of younger people in. I think the target is 35+ years of age. Maybe older. For example, my wife and I were spending the weekend with some friends of ours who just built a getaway home. They will be retiring in 10 years or so. We got to talking about the website Ken and I have and then the questions started coming: What does the poster to “Cat on a Hot Tin Roof” look like? Do you have it? And so on. Bottom line is that they want to do at least one room and maybe more with vintage paper from films that they love. These are professionals with money and grew up on classic films who never knew that this paper existed. I have some ideas about how to tap into that demographic. Regarding the images that Heritage provides, I have to say that they are spot on. I spoke with Ken Schacter about this yesterday and we both feel that the photo/scans are by far the most accurate and highest quality of any site, auction or not. The catalogs are unparalleled and are collectable in themselves. Great reference material. It’s an uncertain market to be sure but as Bruce and Grey have pointed out it is a great time to buy. Peter Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___________________________________________________________________ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [email protected] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content. Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___________________________________________________________________ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [email protected] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content. 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