Hi SA Some good points.
DM ----- Original Message ----- From: "Heather Perella" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2007 12:10 AM Subject: Re: [MD] subject / object logic > > [Ian] >> Trial and error yes, but trial using well informed >> (and well intentioned) strategies have to be better > than >> trials based on coin-tosses or dogmatic prejudices > surely ? > > A coin-toss doesn't take into consideration the > choices our intellect deals with. In a coin-toss it > is heads or tails, so, yes a coin-toss doesn't reach > our intellectual decisions. Dogmatic prejudices are > not using the intellect we have. It is just robots > that use dogmatic prejudices. > > [Ian] >> Particularly if the "trial" is a social experiment > where the downside >> risk hurts people ? > > Hurting people is something the biological level > can do itself. Intellect can rise above the trail and > errors of this level. Yes, intellect may hurt people > still, but these intellectual errors can be modeled > first, instead of trailing something first without > modeling. That is probably one advantage of intellect > over biological level trail and errors. > > > [Ian] >> However yes, self-organising systems of life help us >> crawl up the improbable mountain. And again Yes, the > answer to my >> question is a process. Your "isness" is a "doing". >> Unless you suggesting a "free for all, and let's >> just see what evolves" as the best strategy, we are > still left >> with quality questions of what is good .... and > latching on to >> the good (the best so far), taking it forward, > without cramping the >> possibilities for further evolution > > A "free for all" on the social or biological > level isn't using the intellectual level. What's a > "free for all" on the intellectual level? If it > testing one value on the intellectual without testing > this value with other intellectual values and putting > that value straight into the social and biological > levels, then that "free for all" is harmful. Where I > work, unfortunately, the intellectual level goes > straight into the social level without much of a > 'comparison process' on the intellectual level. This > is a big complaint where I work. We are thrown into > our jobs and expected to deal with children, and yet, > we have NO idea, NO training as to what we are doing > and what's going on. We are told to just observe, and > then start making decisions. So many times we are > winging it, and then if we make a mistake, well, it's > our fault, but those in charge put all this > responsibility on people that are dealing with > situations that clearly we never, for the most part, > had experience in dealing with, aside from ever > observing or reading about before. This is where > trail and error is on the social level where social > experimentation is a "free for all", and yes people > are getting hurt. > > > [Ian] >> .... we've just shifted the question to features of > the process, rather > than any fixed "answer" to my > who question (my how question was >> always looking for process as the answer anyway) > > Isn't the who 'We'? Isn't the who 'those in the > process'? > > [Ian] >> Interestingly you have just rephrased my recurring > question. >> Assuming total freedom, anything goes anarchy, is > not the optimum >> answer, my question about what is the best form of > governance (of >> anything) is a matter of "What are the best > processes of governance". >> The question of judging "best" - the matter of > values - will just not >> go away ? > > We are trailing and erroring now. This is a good > model, a model that can be practical and used whenever > we find it to be not a model anymore, but something we > will walk away from the MOQ.org and actually use. We > are making the decisions and churning them in our > heads now. > > > evening, > SA > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all > the tools to get online. > http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
