On Saturday 25 August 2007 3:25:11 PM SA writes to Platt:
[SA]
<snip>
Keep in mind, which is unfortunate, that some
won't change even when they hit rock bottom. The
unmotivated can be even more dangerous, maybe not as
much to others, but to themselves, such as those that
cut themselves or don't care if they refuse life and
any activities for days, and days, and days, and
weeks, etc... Where I work there are some residents
that just give up no matter what we try to do. Even
if we don't consequence them, they'll refuse to follow
routine and they want to sit in the Time Out Area all
day and night until bedtime, and sometimes even after
their bedtime. I can't start their fire.
Hi SA Platt and All,
I said I wouldn’t use any words, but something is nagging at me. Pirsig sees
evolution as necessary. IMO if the higher level is destroyed the lower level
has no where to evolve and withers. Motivation is destroyed. IMO dogma destroys
the intellectual level. Dogma in contrast to the experience of an intellectual
law is a bored subject. Socrates willingly drank the hemlock.
Joe
[SA previously]
> > The crux of all of this, is - without
> > them wanting to change, they can slide by, hide
> their true intentions, seem all well and such, go
home
> and start getting into trouble all over again.
[Platt]
> Boy, you nailed it SA. They must want to change.
> Many won't until they hit rock bottom.
Keep in mind, which is unfortunate, that some
won't change even when they hit rock bottom. The
unmotivated can be even more dangerous, maybe not as
much to others, but to themselves, such as those that
cut themselves or don't care if they refuse life and
any activities for days, and days, and days, and
weeks, etc... Where I work there are some residents
that just give up no matter what we try to do. Even
if we don't consequence them, they'll refuse to follow
routine and they want to sit in the Time Out Area all
day and night until bedtime, and sometimes even after
their bedtime. I can't start their fire.
> [Platt]
> Sounds like many are caught in a revolving door.
> Again, they must want
> to change.
Yes, this might be the bottom line to any
dialogue. If somebody doesn't want to change, then
let them go and if they get hurt then we did all we
could. The "want to change" is important.
SA
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