Hi Ron
Because we can cut experience up.We impose a plurality of differentiations, experience has the potential to be divided in many ways. They are actively uncovered and not simply given. David M [Ron] even the electric eye senses light and not light. Your not understanding a word of what I'm saying. lets just drop it. all of it. It's really not worth all the bullshit involved, SA too. It's just not worth alienating you guys over a a concept that simply can not be communicated. I value both of you more than some concept about pre-intellect. I choose my relationship with you over any idea I may have, ultimately. This is what I value, not being understood, but the relationship with people I admire and respect. this is not some egotistical garbage. I simply refuse to let this get in the way of our friendship. lets move on. I value the good standing with both of you more than being correct by any means. with love and respect. woods > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David M > Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 9:57 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [MD] subject / object logic > > Hi Ron > > Direct/unconceptualised experience knows nothing of subjects and > objects. > > > regards > David M > > [Ron] > Right you are Dave, but unconceptualized experience is sensual > distinction. How can we > have concepts about anything if it not distinct. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ron Kulp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 9:07 PM > Subject: Re: [MD] subject / object logic > > >> >> >> >> [Ron] >>> ...the focus being on the recognition of things >> before >>> one can think about it. >> >> >> Again, how do you 'know'/'recognize' "things before one can > think"? >> This kind of loop, where 'know' is before 'know' is a trapping of SOM >> thinking I believe. >> >> >> [Ron] >>> Again my suspicion is that preintellectual recognition has s/o >>> distinction and naturally leads to s/o intellection, simply on the >>> merit that we sense the phenomenal world as objects in relation to >>> ourselves before we even think about it. >> >> I disagree. I really don't think about that and I being separate. >> I could if I wanted to, but my mind is accepting these cricket sounds, >> they pass through me, and I'm really not trying to define a this and >> that, just a continual stream of events. >> >> [Ron] >>> I have ducked objects thrown at me before I was aware of the whats >>> whys and hows of any of it. >> >> I duck all the time to bad, disturbing, immoral, and unvaluable >> thoughts, are those thoughts not mine? >> >> >> [Ron] >> I guess what I'm saying is my personel experience has been a level of >> awareness you describe >> as a continual stream of events where I'm aware of things without >> actually thinking about them. >> there is this state of awareness then there is thinking about things. >> I'm saying that even in >> my awareness of continual stream of events I sense objects other than >> me ie. cricket chirping. which >> I allow to pass through me. I just feel that there are two differing >> levels of awareness >> that seem to be getting lumped together somehow in the MOQ perpective. >> If you ever got >> "sucker punched" or been >> hit by something you were not aware of, there is this split second of >> pure awareness before >> the pain sets in and you begin to rationalize just what hit you and > how. >> if you've been hit in the >> back of the head, your vision becomes jumbled and nothing visually > makes >> sense for a few moments. >> experience tells you if this has happened before that more than likely >> you're going to get hit again >> and head for cover if you are unexperienced you are going to pop your >> head up and look around >> for what hit you, probably getting it in the face this time. With out >> intellection and SOM >> I feel the fist,bottle,shoe hit my face,me. And you have s/o > distinction >> before I can think about it. >> It's just curious. I get confused when Pirsig says there is dynamic >> quality of the immediate experience >> and SOM nothing else, to which I ask well what the heck was before the >> greeks invention of SOM? >> someone list the OTHER brands of metaphysics and if it's cultural then >> it should be easy >> to point to OTHER cultural metaphysics should'nt it? >> >> Thanks SA, I'm just askin questions, any help would be appreciated. >> >> >> >> >> >> > ________________________________________________________________________ >> ____________ >> Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with > Yahoo! >> FareChase. >> http://farechase.yahoo.com/ >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ >> > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
