Hi Ron I sense that we are failing to communicate too. We can only exchange words and hope that we uncover a way to communicate better. I offered ny thoughts to see if they helped with your problem but apparently they do not. But if you want to keep trying feel free. But yes I fail to see that what you are calling a problem is one. You may have a perspective/experience I do not have, or maybe I have solved the problem and have the tools you lack. So far I can't tell.
regards David M ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Kulp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 7:17 PM Subject: Re: [MD] subject / object logic > > > Hi Ron > > Because we can cut experience up.We impose a plurality of > differentiations, experience has the potential to be divided in many > ways. They are actively uncovered and not simply given. > > David M > > [Ron] > even the electric eye senses light and not light. > Your not understanding a word of what I'm saying. lets just drop it. > all of it. It's really not worth all the bullshit involved, > SA too. It's just not worth alienating you guys over a > a concept that simply can not be communicated. > I value both of you more than some concept about > pre-intellect. > I choose my relationship with you > over any idea I may have, ultimately. > > This is what I value, not being understood, but the relationship > with people I admire and respect. > this is not some egotistical garbage. I simply > refuse > to let this get in the way of our friendship. > lets move on. > > I value the good standing with both of you more than being correct by > any means. > > with love > and respect. > > woods > > > > > > > >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David M >> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 9:57 AM >> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> Subject: Re: [MD] subject / object logic >> >> Hi Ron >> >> Direct/unconceptualised experience knows nothing of subjects and >> objects. >> >> >> regards >> David M >> >> [Ron] >> Right you are Dave, but unconceptualized experience is sensual >> distinction. How can we >> have concepts about anything if it not distinct. >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Ron Kulp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 9:07 PM >> Subject: Re: [MD] subject / object logic >> >> >>> >>> >>> >>> [Ron] >>>> ...the focus being on the recognition of things >>> before >>>> one can think about it. >>> >>> >>> Again, how do you 'know'/'recognize' "things before one can >> think"? >>> This kind of loop, where 'know' is before 'know' is a trapping of SOM >>> thinking I believe. >>> >>> >>> [Ron] >>>> Again my suspicion is that preintellectual recognition has s/o >>>> distinction and naturally leads to s/o intellection, simply on the >>>> merit that we sense the phenomenal world as objects in relation to >>>> ourselves before we even think about it. >>> >>> I disagree. I really don't think about that and I being > separate. >>> I could if I wanted to, but my mind is accepting these cricket > sounds, >>> they pass through me, and I'm really not trying to define a this and >>> that, just a continual stream of events. >>> >>> [Ron] >>>> I have ducked objects thrown at me before I was aware of the whats >>>> whys and hows of any of it. >>> >>> I duck all the time to bad, disturbing, immoral, and unvaluable >>> thoughts, are those thoughts not mine? >>> >>> >>> [Ron] >>> I guess what I'm saying is my personel experience has been a level of >>> awareness you describe >>> as a continual stream of events where I'm aware of things without >>> actually thinking about them. >>> there is this state of awareness then there is thinking about things. >>> I'm saying that even in >>> my awareness of continual stream of events I sense objects other > than >>> me ie. cricket chirping. which >>> I allow to pass through me. I just feel that there are two differing >>> levels of awareness >>> that seem to be getting lumped together somehow in the MOQ > perpective. >>> If you ever got >>> "sucker punched" or been >>> hit by something you were not aware of, there is this split second of >>> pure awareness before >>> the pain sets in and you begin to rationalize just what hit you and >> how. >>> if you've been hit in the >>> back of the head, your vision becomes jumbled and nothing visually >> makes >>> sense for a few moments. >>> experience tells you if this has happened before that more than > likely >>> you're going to get hit again >>> and head for cover if you are unexperienced you are going to pop your >>> head up and look around >>> for what hit you, probably getting it in the face this time. With out >>> intellection and SOM >>> I feel the fist,bottle,shoe hit my face,me. And you have s/o >> distinction >>> before I can think about it. >>> It's just curious. I get confused when Pirsig says there is dynamic >>> quality of the immediate experience >>> and SOM nothing else, to which I ask well what the heck was before > the >>> greeks invention of SOM? >>> someone list the OTHER brands of metaphysics and if it's cultural > then >>> it should be easy >>> to point to OTHER cultural metaphysics should'nt it? >>> >>> Thanks SA, I'm just askin questions, any help would be appreciated. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> > ________________________________________________________________________ >>> ____________ >>> Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with >> Yahoo! >>> FareChase. >>> http://farechase.yahoo.com/ >>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>> Archives: >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ >>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>> Archives: >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ >>> >> >> >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ >> > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
