Hi Ian I think SOM and the essentialist approach to science is good at looking at order and SQ, but goes wrong when it thinks that all experience can be explained in the terms used to describe SQ and order. MOQ, the progressives in science, and inclusionality, recognise disorder, DQ, emergence and the creative, contingent, accidental, historical, agentive and purposeful aspects of reality.
regards David M ----- Original Message ----- From: "ian glendinning" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 5:50 PM Subject: Re: [MD] subject / object logic > Hi David, > Yes it does, > > I must point MoQ'ers at that video of Alan Rayner tearing and folding > the sheet of paper to illustrate the distinction between distinct and > separate - and the need for "sellotape" (scotch-tape ?) to make > progress. Great metaphor. I'll dig it out. > > Ian > > On 9/14/07, David M <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Hi Ian G >> >> Funny how this sounds like inclusionality. >> >> DM >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Heather Perella" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 4:42 PM >> Subject: Re: [MD] subject / object logic >> >> >> >> [SA previously] >> >> If I may... >> >> You can have a concept about anything and it is >> >> not separate based on what is called 'a part of >> >> you', 'one with you', 'oneness', 'one-with-nature', >> > or >> >> ecosystem experience, namely the woods, etc... It >> >> is these non-ego experiences that DM is referring >> > to. >> >> The distinct experiences are static, but these are >> >> dynamic anyways. Distinct doesn't refer to >> >> separate. >> >> How does you pointing out "...unconceptualized >> >> experience is sensual distinction." change or speak >> >> differently than what I've just said? >> > >> >> [Ron] >> >> Hello SA, >> >> when you say >> >> "The distinct experiences are static, but these are >> >> dynamic anyways " >> >> what do you mean? >> >> thanks >> > >> > >> > It is what I call: dq is sq, and sq is dq. >> > Here's a quote from the SODV paper as follows: >> > >> > "In this diagram you will notice that >> > Dynamic Quality is not shown in any block. It is in >> > the background. This seems the best way to represent >> > it. It is not only outside the blocks, >> > >> > Page 14 >> > >> > it pervades them but it goes on where the blocks leave >> > off." >> > >> > - SODV; Pirsig >> > >> > This is how intellectual values last as long as >> > it is valued. Social values as long as they are >> > valued. Organic... valued. Inorganic... valued. >> > Change is the motto here. This part of the article >> > goes on to say as follows: >> > >> > "The blocks are organized in the order of >> > evolution, with each higher block more recent and more >> > Dynamic than the lower ones." >> > >> > - SODV; Pirsig >> > >> > >> > Does this help? >> > >> > thanks. >> > >> > >> > woods, >> > SA >> > >> > >> > >> > ____________________________________________________________________________________ >> > Tonight's top picks. What will you watch tonight? Preview the hottest >> > shows on Yahoo! TV. >> > http://tv.yahoo.com/ >> > >> > Moq_Discuss mailing list >> > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> > Archives: >> > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ >> > >> >> >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ >> > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
