[Ham]
Your endorsement of "recreational sex" is exactly what's wrong with our
society. You seem to think that promiscuity is fine so long as it is
"hygienic" and does not lead to impregnation or disease. You even
suggest that it's a practical way to test a relationship for marriage.
Are you aware of what rampant sexuality has done to our culture? First
of all, the value of intimacy has been sacrificed to the irresponsible
"have fun now"
value system of today's youth. Out of wedlock pregnancy is no longer
shamed by society, so we produce more bastards each year that have to be
raised by orphanages at the taxpayers' expense, not to mention the
criminal propensity of fatherless children. And if you think premarital
sex improves the prospects for a good marriage, you need to check the
statistics.
[Ron]
Hello Ham,DM,
I agree with Ham in the assessment of the devaulation of intimacy in
our culture, but I see this as a cause rather than an effect, I see the
total lack of personal responsibilty to be more "exactly whats wrong"
Marriage does not
make a parent. Just because you have a piano does not make you a
pianist. To associate marriage with responisible
parenting is a mistake. The "have fun now" mentality is the result of
years of lousy parenting.
Marriage itself does not fix anything, Men 40 yrs ago were expected to
have affairs while their wives
stayed home and maintained the family and the household,this and spousal
abuse. Divorce was frowned apon then
so women had to put up or shut up for the sake of the family and social
convention. The sexual revolution
freed women to make their own choices. It required men to step up to the
plate too. Marriage has become
an equal partnership prospect and most men do not like it. Responsibilty
not sex out of wedlock is the
problem. This society promotes the peter pan syndrome it promotes the
satisfying of the self.
Marriage and parenthood requires selflessness and sacrifice. Sexual
repression by no means instills
proper values for parenting and intimate relationships.
{DM]
> So I'd say that as moderns we have more opportunity for pleasure
> without the same costs that are ancestors faced so we can shrug off
> some of their fears and customs.
[Ham}
Since we've reduced love between two persons to a mechanical act
performed for pleasure
wherever possible, like apes in the jungle, how can we expect our
children to grow up as
responsible parents?
{Ron]
By being responsible parents/adults ourselves, children see what you do
not listen to what you say.
If mom or Dad is having an affair or is just too caught up in themselves
what kind of example
would you then expect them to follow? how does marriage solve this?
[DM]
> Surely one day we will be bored with our most basic activities and
> give more attention to our more developed ones.
[Ham]
I think far too many are already bored with marriage and have no time to
develop the family structure that is essential to civilization. We've
trashed traditional values because having fun has taken precedence over
living responsibly. We like to think we've "liberated" ourselves from
conventional morality. What we're really done is taken civilization a
big step backward. Where is the value in that?
The "joy of the moment"?
[Ron]
Freedom of choice without social convention is the value, the fact that
most in our culture CHOOSE
to be irresposible and selfish goes to show how culturally
underdeveloped we are as a society.
not the acts of promiscuity.
[Ham]
Most of my working life was spent in industrial advertising and
marketing, so I don't need a lecture on how new products are marketed.
Industrial purchasers are well aware of the caveat "buyer beware", and
so are intelligent consumers. The FDA, EPA, FHA, and a host of other
government agencies serve to protect those who aren't. Frankly, I
believe we're coddling the consumers already, with state bans on
saturated fats and laws against smoking. Soon we'll have government
telling them what to eat, how to dress, where to live, what to do for
recreation, and whom to marry. Are we all retards?
[Ron]
Here,Here! I agree, step up to the plate people!.
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