David M. and discourse On 13 Oct. you wrote:
> Bo asked: > I guess James' "aesthetic continuum" is another name for this > pre-intellectual awareness that's neither subjective nor objective. > But what does the dividing? > DM: I see. I would say that there are many qualities that we > experience. There is no need or way to explain this experience. There is no way of ESCAPING an explanation of experience and for the Western world this explanation has been the subject/object one. > The way SOM tries to explain this plurality of qualities is what > MOQ rejects for the reasons Pirsig states. That's right. > I think you are > trying to find an explanation for the plurality of qualities and > think we need to recognise it in terms of an s-o divide as > if that actually explains something and I'd suggest it does not. I try to apply the MOQ. Only with the MOQ did a Quality explanation emerge and in it the former S/O explanation is its 4th.level. But the MOQ is NOT an intellectual pattern, that's where Pirsig undermines his own great achievement. > MOQ does not ignore the plurality of qualities and levels > of SQ, but neither does it need to see them in terms of an > S-O divide. Of course the MOQ doesn't ignore qualities, it is the Quality Explanation itself, but I don't see the levels in terms of a S/O divide? I see the intellectual level as THE S/O divide, a view most of Pirsig's writing supports. > But I can see why you might feel a need to > have this distinction to explain for the continuum becomes > divided, but this re-introduces the idea of a subject and all > the problems of some entity that seem to be in touch with > objects and all the problems of that dualism. The static intellectual level as the S/O prism makes a world of difference and does NOT re-introduce the mind/matter problems among which is the entity that seems to be in touch with objects, that problem is removed with the DQ/SQ replacing the S/O one. > MOQ suggests > an unfolding process of reality-experience where there is no > non-experiencing aspects being divided by special non-physical > aspects that do the dividing. Without SOM there is no distinction > between physical change and awareness of change. I agree about "..without SOM there is no distinction ...etc", the S/O divide must be replaced by DQ/SQ one - in addition to the level system being established - before existence can be seen as an unfolding process. It's the intellectual S/O distinction that demands an (aware) mind that registers a physical world (and its changes) . Bo Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
