[Krimel]
Perhaps you mean that organized system can be deterministic but
unpredictable. But evolution is all about chance and the probability of
traits being manifest in successive generations.
[gav:] evolution is an interesting word.
L évolvere - to unroll, open, unfold.
to evolve is to develop. 'develop' implies a movement towards a more complete,
expanded or refined state.
unroll, unfold, open.....literary analogies.
evolution is the plot developing....your own life and the cosmos itself .
story. myth.
[gav, earlier]
things seem 'top-down' or 'bottom-up' in the world of opposites. duality =
polarity. in unity, 'top'' and 'bottom' are complementary aspects of the
same dynamic principle (tao, quality etc).
[Krimel]
There are two problems with this. First the fact of greyness does not mean
there is no black and white. Seeing the relationships or union of opposites
does not make opposites alike.
[gav:] black doesn't exist without white, that is the point. no bottom-up
without top-down.
[krimel:] Secondly in this instance of top down and bottom up we are looking at
the
history and growth of life on this planet. It did not begin with complex
organisms that have been deteriorating. It started with a congenial mixture
of chemicals bathed in sunlight. The influx of energy into the system has
produced increased complexity or life.
[gav:] i have read the textbooks too. these are hypotheses. different contexts
produce different hypotheses.
good science is careful science. good science is science done with a
multi-context awareness and the awareness of how these contexts
interrelate...how different descriptions complement and augment each other,
rather than thinking you can only choose one that is 'true'.
[krimel:]Entropy limits the direction that time can run, especially in this
case. It
is not as though some future state or Omega point can orchestrate events in
the past or present.
[gav] every law in physics is reversible with respect to time, excepting (it is
said) the second law of thermodynamics, to which you refer. william james
sidis' book, 'the animate and the inanimate' takes this very issue up and comes
to the conclusion that the second law of thermodynamics is reversible also.
that is things run down *and* things run up. ie entropy does not limit time,
because not all states are entropic.
for instance life works against entropy. life takes the simple and makes it
more complex - bigger, better. the cell is immortal and it has built a mighty
impressive world.
[gav, earlier]
therefore things are ultimately neither 'top-down' nor 'bottom-up'. they are
both and neither (tetralemma).
the MOQ's static levels are of tertiary import; of secondary import is the
dynamic/static split; of primary import is the notion that Quality=reality.
[Krimel]
As long as time continues to run forward, which I suspect it will for the
foreseeable future, your first statement makes no sense.
[gav:] only if you think that time always runs 'forward'... everywhere! sidis
suggests that there are light and dark regions of space. the light regions give
out light (entropic) and dark regions absorb light (anti-entropic). sidis
predicted the existence of black holes from this theory.
in this case even though we live in an entropic (light emitting) region of the
universe, the universe as a whole is neither entropic nor anti-entropic. it is
neither and both - in dynamic balance.
in consequence the confusion over an infinite universe having a (absolute)
beginning and end is gone.
[krimel:] The first point of the MoQ is the Quality = Tao which is undefined.
It is
precisely as undefined as the future is unknowable. It is often surprising.
[gav:] Tao/Quality *is* knowable, not definable. Quality is experienced.
[krimel] The second point is the SQ/DQ spit. Again this is just Yin and Yang,
active
and passive, plus and minus, Taoism sees reality as essentially binary.
[gav:]Taoism sees reality as binary? who told you that....
Taoism is a dynamic monism. a mystical monism. The Tao *produces* yin/yang -
one produces two. Tao/ Quality - undivided, dynamic.
[Krimel] Pirsig make a big point of the importance of the first metaphysical
cut. He
insists that it defines in some sense every cut that follows. True enough
but so does the second cut and the third. Each division we make partially
determines subsequent cuts.
[gav] more important is what you have before you cut.
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