gav, follow-up: they are both relative terms. i am saying that choosing one polar option or the other is the characteristic SOM approach - adversarial dichotomies. pirsig's novel approach to the twin horns of these dilemmas was to reject both, to go between them to the unitary origin of both.
Krimel So what's the middle way between life, intelligence and consciousness growing organically as the conditions here support it and life being created or managed by a higher consciousness or absolute source? gav, follow-up: it can't be. experience is unitary and prior to polar relativisation. Krimel You say experience is unitary. But isn't experience comprised of five senses transducing energy from the environment into electo-chemical patterns in the nerves. Aren't those neural patterns filtered through memories and emotions and organized into a whole experience? gav, follow-up: the solar system seems to be net entropic...yet life is a force that is in oppositional balance to this - anti-entropic. evolution. time may wear down the mightiest mountain....but evolution moves in the opposite direction - towards the creation of higher energy states. elan vital, as bergson put it. Krimel Have you considered that the élan vital might be sunlight? Is my car being anti-entropic by speeding up when I give it more gas? gav: the universe cannot be separated from we humans. 'we' bringing stuff to the table is how the universe brings stuff to the table. meaning can be split into two kinds - implicit and explicit. there is no explicit meaning without humans. all experience is implicitly meaningful. Krimel Where does the stuff we bring to the table come from? What meaning is implied or explicated when we sleep or pass out? What is the meaning of experiences we have forgotten or never remembered? In fact how can there be meaning without memory? [Krimel follow-up to follow-up] If it is we who are injecting meaning into the universe and we seem to be injecting more and more of it all the time; doesn't that suggest a bottom-up evolutionary progression? gav, follow-up: that suggests a habit. evolution progresses towards states with higher degrees of freedom. Krimel Wouldn't it be more accurate to say the evolution progresses when degrees of freedom are limited? With out a restriction on degrees of freedom there are no patterns at all. Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
