Krimel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: [Krimel] Sure, do you think that events in the future are controlling the past and present?
gav: no. [Krimel follow-up] So you are not advocating a "top down" you are saying neither one works? gav, follow-up: they are both relative terms. i am saying that choosing one polar option or the other is the characteristic SOM approach - adversarial dichotomies. pirsig's novel approach to the twin horns of these dilemmas was to reject both, to go between them to the unitary origin of both. [Krimel] Do you think that spiritual sense of oneness provides knowledge of a truth beyond experience or an experience that is difficult to classify? gav:it is not a truth 'beyond experience'. it is the truth *of* experience. [Krimel follow-up] How could an experience be false? gav, follow-up: it can't be. experience is unitary and prior to polar relativisation. [Krimel] In what way does evolution run counter to entropy? gav: 'evolution' usually refers to biological evolution - life. entropy is the increase in disorder of a system or the decrease in order. life is the increase in order of a system...in this case an ecosystem. life, left to itself, will produce a more and more complex and biodiverse ecosystem from even the most frugal beginnings. [Krimel follow-up] Doesn't this ignore the steady stream of solar radiation energizing the earth's surface? gav, follow-up: the solar system seems to be net entropic...yet life is a force that is in oppositional balance to this - anti-entropic. evolution. time may wear down the mightiest mountain....but evolution moves in the opposite direction - towards the creation of higher energy states. elan vital, as bergson put it. [Krimel] Do you think there is purpose in the universe beyond what we humans bring to the table? gav: the universe cannot be separated from we humans. 'we' bringing stuff to the table is how the universe brings stuff to the table. meaning can be split into two kinds - implicit and explicit. there is no explicit meaning without humans. all experience is implicitly meaningful. [Krimel follow-up] So was there a universe before humans got here? gav, follow-up: don't know [Krimel follow-up to follow-up] If it is we who are injecting meaning into the universe and we seem to be injecting more and more of it all the time; doesn't that suggest a bottom-up evolutionary progression? gav, follow-up: that suggests a habit. evolution progresses towards states with higher degrees of freedom. Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ --------------------------------- Make the switch to the world's best email. Get the new Yahoo!7 Mail now. Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
