[Krimel] Matt,
I am not sure who wrote the stuff attributed to me but it wasn't me. I have never read 1984 or Brave New World. I am not a big fan of rain either. We used to make sure there was a druid in our groups. They have a spell than can make it stop. As for fictional philosophy though, Camus and Nietzsche both wrote philosophical fiction and many fiction writers have deal with philosophical themes. I myself am a fictional character so I really don't see what the problem is with that. I would guess even the chair of philosophy at Harvard has read a bit of fiction from time to time. [Matt] I think I meant Platt, but mistook names or something. While it's true that there are philosophers that read or even write fiction (often dealing with philosophical themes), it's also true that new philosophical frameworks/paradigms should be in essay form, not dispersed through a few novels. On Dec 11, 2007 1:24 AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Spirit (Krimel mentioned). > > On 6 Dec. you wrote: > > > Questions and comments for both Bo and Krimel as > > follows: > > [Bo] > > > > Well, my view is that comparing the MOQ to either Buddhism or Taoism > is > > > (not exactly wrong, but) unnecessary, the MOQ transcends SOM in a way > > > that leaves it less "mystical", more suited the Western - um - mind. > > > Bo, what is mystical? > > First Pirsig in LILA: > > The term mystic is sometimes confused with "occult" or > "supernatural" and with magic and witchcraft but in > philosophy it has a different meaning. Some of the most > honored philosophers in history have been mystics: > Plotinus, Swedenborg, Loyola, Shankaracharya and many > others. They share a common belief that the > fundamental nature of reality is outside language; that > language splits things up into parts while the true nature > of reality is undivided. Zen, which is a mystic religion, > argues that the illusion of dividedness can be overcome > by meditation. > > As you probably know I am dubious regarding mysticism, such > statements as "the fundamental nature of reality is outside > language" is nonsense. IMO nothing is outside language .. when > we apply language, or outside the paper when we draw > diagrams.. etc. So - as I see it - mystics are people who don't > understand what they talk about. > > About Krimel's: > > > > Taoism is not part of Buddhism. Taoism is not > > > necessarily mystical. ZMM is > > > clearly rooted in Taoism. Pirsig states this > > > explicitly not only in ZMM but > > > in his letters to Ant. > > I just remember from Alan Watts' "The Way of Zen" how he > presented the Confucianism and Taoism relationship in a most > easily understood way. > > "Confucianism presides over the socially necessary task > of forcing the original spontaneity of life into the rigid > rules of convention - a task which involves not only > conflict and pain, but also the loss of the peculiar > naturalness and un-consciousness for which little children > are so much loved, and which is sometimes regained by > saints and sages. The function of Taoism is to undo the > inevitable damage of this discipline and not only restore > but also develop the original spontaneity ... ..." > > Where Orientalism radically differs from (at least) Old Testament > Christendom, Judaism and Islam is that of NOT identifying the > Absolute with social conventions, a connection that the MOQ also > abolishes (social value is ONE aspect of the overall Goodness) In > that respect I agree with Krimel about MOQ being more like > Taoism than Buddhism. Not that I'm very versed in either. My > hope is that the "Jesuitic" Christendom will fuse with the MOQ > philosophy to get us of a Western kind of "Eastern wisdom". > > Bo > > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > -- "The only thing that separates us from the animals is...well, the truth is nothing separates us from the animals." Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
