Spirit and Peter. On 15 December Spirit quoted and commented Peter's:
> > Pirsig suffered a mental breakdown figuring this > > stuff out Yes, and this is quite a mystery. I understand Pirsig's way out of the hospital (acting the straight guy) and when writing ZAMM (which is a reconstruction of Phaedrus' ideas) Pirsig were able to recount them perfectly, for instance the first proto-moq where "intellect" is the subject/object distinction, but something happened while writing LILA. He started with the correct observation about metaphysics as the most basic understanding that no one can escape it, meaning that we don't regard(ed) the SOM as a theory, but as the way reality really IS. But then he lapsed back to the Aristotelian kind of metaphysics just a theory and as if writing metaphysics is a philosophical vice. Maybe not to be regarded a nutcase, but here the trouble for the MOQ began. The MOQ is a metaphysics in the first fundamental sense, an upheaval, not another newageish mumbo jumbo. This is Peter's (for me): > > You have been flexible over the boundaries of the > > Social level. Let's all > > keep on pressing to clarify what is the intellectual > > level - it's evolving. Spirit: > Exactly! "it's evolving" thus involves change, > not a one or other choice, or an s or o only choice. > It is an intellect that involves morals and values. The evolution of all static levels has been the the basic value evolving towards more complexity but also more instability - dynamics in moqspeak. An amoeba is a much more stable biological pattern than the mammal organism, which is open to all kind of infections. Anyway the complexity/dynamics of the said organism spawned the social level, whose most basic forms - families tribes, clans - are infinitely more stable than the state or country, but it was the Greek City states that were dynamic enough to foster thinkers who dared the social static pressure and started the search for eternal principles that transcended the mythological gods, resulting in SOM or the intellectual level. I hope that Peter means that the ensuing evolution of the intellectual level resulted in the MOQ that revealed the quality level context and has intellect as a subset that can't contain the MOQ unless intellect is seen as intellect's "intellect". This formulation Spirit found "bad" but merely means that while SOM ruled, "intellect" was regarded as a mindish compartment where symbols were manipulated and ideas constructed. The intellectual LEVEL is not like that. IMO Bo Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
