All MOQ discuss. Long ago - on 20 December - Ron Kulp (in the "Knowledge as MOQ's intellect" thread wrote):
> We may only understand the world through culture he brings several examples > of > But western culture is not the only culture. And the term "culture" has kept me speculating ever sine, what is it in a MOQ context? To start from rock bottom, what we call matter - including the forces that govern it - are Inorganic (patterns of value) All living things are Biological POV and all human communities are Social POV but are all cultures intellectual POV? In LILA Pirsig attributes an immune system to each level (except the inorganic) The biological is the master-model that has given such their names , the social consists of the judicial system and its agents that punishes those who break the law, but he also postulates an intellectual immune system, namely that of mental institutions that deem those insane who trespass the cultural norms. He brings examples of how one culture sees one phenomenon as normal while another looks upon it as madness. This stems from his original MIND definition of intellect and because this is flawed it leads into a wilderness of contradictions. For instance there were no agents that watch over normality in the sanity/insanity sense among old and "primitive" cultures. They had no police either, but surely various means to keep the members toe the social line, for example that of ostracizing. Among ancient people there were - um - cultural anomalies, but these were highly valued divine messengers, oracles Conclusion "culture" is simply an enlarged social group, not an intellectual pattern. As usual the S/O definition (of intellect) makes more sense. We know that madness - in the clinical sense - arrived with Enlightenment that was the result of the Renaissance, that again was the revival of SOM after the Medieval hibernation. SOM's "objective" attitude rejected all divine explanations, madness was illness of the (subject's) mind and the ill ones were put into "lunatic bins". In those times there was no cure, but along with the somatic medical improvement (woops another S/O "psychiatric/somatic") various treatments were invented, lobotomy the most recent before our time's chemicals. Conclusion, Pirsig is right about psychiatry being intellect's immune system, but it is the S/O-intellect, not a mind-intellect (or a symbol- manipulating-intellect) manifest as "culture" all over the world. And now another aspect of intellect's crusade against social value is revealed. Here in Scandinavia (at least) psychiatry tries to make all a- social behaviour (formerly treated by the social immune system as crime) into illness caused by social wrongs. No one is to be punished, prisons only make more criminals ... etc. That the MOQ as something that has intellect as a static levels will have an impact on all this is clear. I don't know if this adds anything to Ron Kulp's understanding of "culture" but it adds to our understanding of the MOQ's IMO Bo Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
