Dan, Steve and moqtalk
4 Jan. Dan commented Steve's comment to Khoo's:
Khoo:
> > > If I recall my Sociology 101, culture is defined as the sum total
> > > of knowledge that groups of humans share.
Steve:
> > This is an SOM definition of culture since SOMists only know about
> > intellectual patterns but not social patterns.
Hope this isn't irony (possibly directed my way) because it is just
right.. IMO
> > Handshakes are certainly part of culture but are not knowledge.
Culture is just a wider social concept .. IMO.
----------------
Dan comments:
> I think the MOQ defines culture as the collection of social and
> intellectual patterns of value of a given people.
One can't have a collection of two upper levels without it being a
collection of all levels and all levels means intellect as top notch and
thus an "intellectual" -- um -- culture. A SOM culture that (as Steve
says) doesn't know anything about social patterns (nor that its own is
intellectual I may add) Only from MOQ's meta-level the Q-context is
seen.
> Handshakes are social patterns until a person begins to study them.
> At that point, they become intellectual patterns of value. For
> instance...
Intellect is treating social customs as subjective because they are
something that only exist in people's mind and varies from one social
group to another.
You ended your story about handshaking thus
> I am intellectually manipulating the socially symbolic handshake to
> gain a desired end.
You want the "symbol manipulation" intellect to apply, but this is not
what Pirsig means, but the ability to pick up social signals, important
nevertheless, we are social beings too, but not the 4th level.
> Thoughts?
My thoughts were and are that LILA postulates an immune system at
each level, but (also) calls intellect's system "the cultural immune
system)
"It was not something that he could talk about without
being slammed by the cultural immune system, being
thought crazy, and with his record it was not good to invite that
suspicion."
He is correct about psychiatry being the 4th. level's immune
apparatus, but the "culture" concept muddles things. There are
cultures that don't have a notion of disturbed people as mentally ill,
they believe them possessed by evil spirits or by the devil ...etc. So my
conclusion is that these are social level cultures, only the West has
this "psychic" immune system and consequently is the only intellectual
level civilization. This proves for the umpteenth time that intellect is the
S/O distinction, in this context the mental/corporeal, psychic/somatic
variants.
Enough.
Bo
Moq_Discuss mailing list
Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
Archives:
http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
