[SA] I told you. Maybe the mainstream culture will try to find out why. Maybe mainstream culture will have to reach out and try to change the way things are.
[Arlo] So, your plan is that by not voting, the "maintstream culture" will try to find out why, and then who will change things? When will _you_ stand up and actually try to make a change, rather than sitting back and hoping the "mainstream culture" will figure out why you are not voting, and then maybe the "mainstream culture" will change things? Not to mention that the "mainstream culture" has been asking "why is voter turnout so low?" since 1972. What answers have gotten anyone anywhere? [SA} I think gov't is too big. I told you before that the gov't could watch for enemies on the horizon. [Arlo] This is a different topic, but okay, do you really feel safe with these clowns making enemies at every turn? Are you content to sit back and wait until the "mainstream culture" changes things and passively accept aggressive, warmongering buffoons like Dubya? And while the government restricts itself to "watching for enemies on the horizon" (no doubt they will find them abundant), what do you propose we do about public libraries, police, fire and EMT, public parks and national forests, the civic courts, the federal reserve and mint, the public roadways and waterways, mass transit, public education, diplomacy efforts (assuming we actually want to make friends, rather than lying on the ground with sniper rifles waiting for ghouls and goblins)? What about water, sewage, trash and reading initiatives in your local area? What about protecting your beloved valleys and hiking paths from landfills and the millions of tons of garbage we churn out daily? Who do you think does all this? Government... that is _you_ and _me_, we do it, we are the government, SA. And that is the crux of the problem. You have bought into (it seems) that deplorable and cancerous rhetoric of neoconservatism, that paints "the big bad government" as some external, outside, evil agency just waiting in the shadows to ruin your life and take away your liberties. When the government is bad, it is because we are bad. When the government is abusive, it is because we are apathetic. [SA] If this answer doesn't satisfy you, which it doesn't seem to since I'm repeating my answer, then tell me why I should vote? Why does voting change anything? [Arlo] Because if 90% of the people didn't vote, nothing would change, SA. But if 90% of the people cared and were involved, everything would change. [SA] Might I remind you I work with troubled youth. The future of this country. [Arlo] Again, SA, I never proposed you did not "care" about "anything", nor did I claim that you are not effecting change with your work. But what do you tell these kids? Don't vote, because your vote is meaningless? Don't vote and sit back and wait for the mainstream culture to figure out what's wrong and fix it? Or do you teach them agency? Do you teach them to stand up and try to fix things they think are broken? And even if one person doesn't change the system, it is better to have tried to do what is right and failed, than to sit back and accept mediocrity? I certainly hope that the future of this country does stand up and get involved and care, rather than tune out. Indeed, that's the problem today, no one cares. Everyone is too busy with that, or too apathetic about this, or they are so convinced that nothing will ever change, they simply turn into good sheep and allow ever-shrinking minorities or wealthy power brokers tell them what they can and can't do. [SA] Believe whatever message you want to. But I'm unhappy with the system and not the latter. [Arlo] That's like saying you're unhappy because your car doesn't work, but happy to sit back and wait for some mechanic to recognize that its broken and then fix it. If you were truly unhappy, SA, you'd be working to change things, not sitting back and either ignoring it or hoping someone else changes it for you. I think the reason this issue riles so many, is because it completely undermines the citizen-participation required for a democracy to operate. You say, ah but its a republic, not a democracy. Fine, and who left it become that? We did. We have no one to blame but ourselves. And who's going to fix it. If not you, who? See that's the other problem, all these unhappy people sitting around waiting for someone else to do the work. And we wonder why we get nothing but clowns to vote for. [SA] Yes, "we the people". I'm a real person Arlo. [Arlo] And when did I ever imply or state otherwise? Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
