> [SA previously]
> Well, we both agree on this. We just have different
> solutions. Mine
> begins with ones' own self, yours with
> representatives to do it for you.
>
> [Arlo]
> This is an incorrect distortion. There is a division
> of labor
> necessary for the continued functioning of the
> infrastructure we all
> enjoy. Let's start with those hiking trails, SA. Do
> you really think
> if sold them off to Exxon or Walmart they'd be there
> for you to enjoy?
SA: I understand what your saying. What's sad is we
need politicians that are stuck in a system to
over-see such giants as Exxon or Walmart. I'm talking
at a deeper level where giants such as Exxon or
Walmart could control themselves with higher morals.
This is what I hold out for. The question I ask
myself is, Is it better to vote and uphold a system
that is supporting such 'things' to happen and have
faith that this system will change and I wait it out,
or do I not vote and support this system and try to
put a wrench in it the best way I know how? Maybe
what I'm doing, by not-voting, is worse, but do I
screw/vote with a whore or wait it out for a wife,
somebody I can live with?
[Arlo]
> Or do you think they'd disappear, replaced
> either by exclusive
> private lands, cheap Disneyish "real forest"
> attractions, or mined
> for their resources? They are there because we, as
> public stewards,
> have a system in place where representatives of the
> public's
> interests ensure that they remain unspoiled and
> accessible by all.
> Would you feel safe if all our diplomatic efforts
> overseas were
> replaced with representatives of Standard Oil or any
> of the big
> pharmaceutical or defense companies? Would you think
> your interests
> are being represented? Would you think they'd work
> on behalf of
> what's best for the American people, or what's best
> for their own
> bottom line, their own wealth creation, their own
> power? And, before
> you say, this is the way things are, that's my
> point. They are this
> way because of we have accepted mediocrity, we
> simply do not care,
> and into that vacuum of apathy, clowns, buffoons and
> self-interested
> money hungry capistocrats have poured by the
> bucketful.
SA: So, by voting we have this, by not-voting we have
this, so we need more votes? Isn't all of this
speculative? I really don't see anybody to vote for.
My vote is important and I don't vote to get somebody
out, or the lesser of two evils, etc...
[Arlo]
> I, too, think the solution begins in each and every
> person, it begins
> with people making Quality decisions, as Pirsig
> reminds us in ZMM. It
> begins with people "caring". You do what part in the
> overall process
> you can do, whether its help wayward youth, or teach
> languages, or
> nurse the sick, or build computers, or weld
> motorcycle frames. But,
> our eye always has to be on the larger picture as
> well, and that is
> on our civic and social responsibilities. If our
> government is
> corrupt, it is because we have let it become so, it
> is our fault. Not
> some "other" somewhere out there mucking up things
> for you.
SA: Well, then, maybe this civic and social "larger
picture" needs to break. Maybe the Declaration of
Independence needs brought back into expression where
a people show the gov't that the gov't can be
separated by the people and the Natural Laws can be
reinstated. I feel as if this issue is very important
and I feel I have the right to exercise the
Declaration of Independence as follows: "That
whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of
these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or
to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying
its foundation on such principles and organizing its
powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely
to effect their Safety and Happiness."
I'm deciding how the government can be "alter(ed)
or... abolish(ed)". I don't know if voting is the way
or not anymore. Maybe it's not that bad in gov't and
I'm hypersensitive, but I would need others to apply
their input to safeguard myself from falling into a
choice that might be too self-absorptive.
[Arlo]
> Those lands you enjoy are there because citizens,
> you and me, got
> together and recognized that there is more and
> greater value to a
> public stewardship over them. And that public
> stewardship will only
> succeed when citizens are involved and care. When
> they are not, that stewardship fails.
SA: Why do we need a gov't to do this for us? I
only see time constraints, population size, and the
big carrot in our decisions/$ being the factors as to
why we don't have control anymore.
> [Arlo]
> When someone's home is on fire, you bet I invest in
public
> representatives to ensure
> that your fire department gets there, has the means
> to put it out.
> When there is an auto accident, you bet I invest in
> public
> representatives to ensure that local EMT services
> are fast,
> well-prepared, well-equipped, and unconcerned with
> anyone's "private
> wealth status".
SA: I lived in a town that had volunteer
firepeople. I'm looking for a country that is willing
to do 'things' out of their heart and for enjoyment.
If we need to have full-time firepeople and EMS, why
do we need to vote somebody into office for these
people to exist. We put $ into a public fund, we have
public offices that collect taxes, and then this will
pay their wage. Where a politician fits into this I
don't know.
I keep this post to what I've said above. I
believe what you ended your post with, I responded to
above. I'm thinking about what your saying. I have
this underlying honor in principles that I fear of
losing. Sometimes I picture myself as Lao-tzu and
your Confucius. Both highly respectful people. Both
energetic and insightful. Yet, Lao-tzu left
civilization and contributed a book to help society.
Confucius was very active and yearned to somebody be a
top advisor for a high official somewhere, though he
never did, but his be active in society approach also
influenced China. Both ways influenced China in
tremendous ways, yet, in different ways. Do you see
my analogy here?
SA
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