Steve, when you boil it down there is only a relative certainty about any observable phenomena. Science and religion make attempts at understanding reality. They both play the same role. Simplifying and projecting to grasp and relate, this is what we do. Nothing is objectively absolute. Understanding is subjective. True is what we "interpret" as congruent with observable phenomena.
In other words we are not certain of anything. We develop interpretations, we ASSUME are true. What I'm saying is no one really Knows a damn thing and Based on Sam Harris's statement maybe we should Just Shut up. Because we both don't "know" with absolute certainty A dagnabbed thing. Regards, -Ron -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve Peterson Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 8:09 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MD] The End of Faith Hi Platt, Ron > Quoting Ron Kulp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: >> "Faith is >> typically reserved for describing one's beliefs in things, >> concepts, or >> ideals that cannot be objectively experienced or proven. However, >> from >> an epistmological perspective, both religion and science are belief >> systems. The only significant difference is how we have come to >> obtain >> the knowledge in each. In fact, I would go so far as to say that >> the two >> are not mutually exclusive, and when viewed with the proper >> perspective, >> they are actually complimentary." > Platt said: > I agree, Ron. Good point. Steve: How are science and religion "complementary"? Ron's quote continues: "Religious faith is typically placed in some underlying assumptions about our own existence, meaning and purpose." Steve: If religions taught that it is good to live as though existence has this or that meaning and purpose there would be no conflict with science and no conflict between religions over real estate and dogma. The problem is that religions also make historical and cosmological claims to be accepted on faith. This is the sort of faith that we would be better off without. Ron's quote continues: "Scientific faith is based in the belief, or assumption, that given enough time and careful consideration of the right questions, there is no (physical) phenomenon in the universe that cannot be understood." Steve: I have no such faith in science. Sam Harris also does not preach that science will some day understand everything about the universe. He says that people shouldn't claim to know things that they don't know or encourage others to believe based on faith. He says that people should hold all their beliefs to the same standards of reason and evidence rather than making a special exclusion for beliefs espoused by religions. Regards, Steve Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
