Hi DM, (Ron) >>>> Steve: >>>> I think of social patterns as maintained through copying behavior of >>>> others without thinking (manipulating symbols) while intellectual >>>> patterns >>>> are maintained through copying rationales for behavior. I don't see >>>> any >>>> sliding scale or overlap between a rationale and a mimicked behavior. >> >>> DM: Does that mean all language use is intellectual rather than >>> social? That >>> would seem an odd suggestion. >> >> Steve: >> >> All language use is not intellectual. Language itself is maintained >> through unconscious copying of behavior and is a social phenomenon. As >> Pirsig commented in Lila's Child, saying gesundheit when someone >> sneezes is a social pattern. My comment was that rationalizing behavior >> is intellectual activity. "I did this because..." is an intellectual >> pattern.
DM: >I see. No argument there then. But you are choosing >too easy an example. I'd suggest that if you look at any >form of practical activity there is both an inventive/intellectual >aspect and a cultural-treansmitting aspect that requires understanding >that is intellectual in character even of practical and social in purpose. Steve: I think you and perhaps Ron make the misstake of thinking of culture as only social. Pirsig defines culture as a collection of social and intellectual patterns. Intellectual and social patterns are both culturally transmitted. It's just that different types of patterns are being transmitted. To distinguish between the two types, think of copying a behavior versus copying a rationale for behavior. This copying is the static latching of patterns that occurs on both levels. The difference is what is being copied. DM: >This is why I think the scale is a sliding one even if you have to draw >a distinction somewhere to say an activity is more intellectual than social. Steve: There is no need to draw such a distinction. You can simply talk about the social versus intellectual aspects of experience. Regards, Steve Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
