> [Platt] > Yes, the intellectual level IS the individual level and rightly regards the > social level as the "enemy." This is pure MOQ. > > [Arlo] > According the MOQ, the intellectual level originated out the social level. > In your interpretation, kindly point me to a time when "societies" existed > but "individuals" did not.
The MOQ speaks of moral not reified levels. > Then kindly point to me when, give or take, you feel "individuals" emerged > from the MOQ? Not, I point out, when the intellectual level took dominance, > that's another issue, but when it emerged. Who made up these "societies" > before the evolution of the "individual"? See above. > And I point out that there is no "enemy" in Pirsig's words, "our > intellectual description is always culturally derived". Where is the "great > battle" against society in that? See the story of the brujo and Pirsig's description of contrarians. > Also, let me remind you, that there are "individuals" on all the MOQ levels, > individual inorganic patterns, individual biological patterns, individual > social patterns, individual intellectual patterns. And each new evolutionary > layer is built upon the collective activity of "individuals" on the previous > level. See above about reification. > A biological pattern derives from the collective activity of inorganic > patterns. A social pattern derives from the collective activity of > biological patterns. And an intellectual pattern derives from the collective > activity of social patterns. > > That fits exactly with Pirsig's statmenet, "mind originates out of the > social level, social patterns originate out of the biological and biological > patterns originate out of the inorganic level". "Mind" is singular, individual. There's no such thing as a collective brain. >Your revision of the MOQ is many things, but pure it is not. If you choose to ignore parts of the MOQ, that's your problem, not mine. Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
