Nice summary Arlo, that final quote from Pirsig
>
> All this is summed up clearly and without confusion when Pirsig says,
> "Mental patterns do not originate out of inorganic nature. They
> originate out of society, which originates out of biology which
> originates out of inorganic nature."
>
However, I still have problem of social level existing without "mental
patterns" existing - means of symbolic communication etc ... same old
issue. (But the general "out of" stack works for me.)

Ian
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