[Platt] Yes, the intellectual level IS the individual level and rightly regards the social level as the "enemy." This is pure MOQ.
[Arlo] According the MOQ, the intellectual level originated out the social level. In your interpretation, kindly point me to a time when "societies" existed but "individuals" did not. Then kindly point to me when, give or take, you feel "individuals" emerged from the MOQ? Not, I point out, when the intellectual level took dominance, that's another issue, but when it emerged. Who made up these "societies" before the evolution of the "individual"? And I point out that there is no "enemy" in Pirsig's words, "our intellectual description is always culturally derived". Where is the "great battle" against society in that? Also, let me remind you, that there are "individuals" on all the MOQ levels, individual inorganic patterns, individual biological patterns, individual social patterns, individual intellectual patterns. And each new evolutionary layer is built upon the collective activity of "individuals" on the previous level. A biological pattern derives from the collective activity of inorganic patterns. A social pattern derives from the collective activity of biological patterns. And an intellectual pattern derives from the collective activity of social patterns. That fits exactly with Pirsig's statmenet, "mind originates out of the social level, social patterns originate out of the biological and biological patterns originate out of the inorganic level". Your revision of the MOQ is many things, but pure it is not. Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
