On 2/23/08 12:48 AM, "Christoffer Ivarsson"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello Joseph
>
> You wrote:
> I disagree that in Pirsig's thought "patterns" and "realities" are disparate
> entities inasmuch as Qualities are values in existence. IMO as I read
> Pirsig I find self-consciousness, proprietary-awareness of thoughts,
> feelings, sensations as the structure of the social level. SOL is the
> structure of the intellectual level.
>
> Me:
> I would also not say that realities and patterns are disparate entities, but
> I would say that "seen" from within each pattern, "reality" looks different,
> so to speak. So would you agree that the Subject/Object view of "reality" is
> the basis for the intellectual level? And if you do, how would you
> categorize the MOQ?
Hi Chris
IMO Bodvar has described the MOQ as a meta-level. I agree. As an amateur
singer I have respect for the tonal octave. The change in pace between
Do-Si and Fa-Mi requires special attention. I use the octave as a model for
evolution, following esoteric literature. MOQ, a meta-level is properly
placed in the consciousness, inner-only level in the sixth place. Which
direction, up or down? Oddly enough the organic evolution from an inorganic
level is an ascending reality, when a study of the universe seems to be a
descending, becoming more and more complex, reality.
>
> Joseph:
> In the writings of Gurdjieff and Ouspensky I read more about the mechanical
> "I" which can evolve to a conscious "I". IMO you misread Pirsig by
> attributing to him a dismissal of selfness. His struggle is self. IMO your
> description of physical reality being based in awareness has no foundation
> and is not real. I do not agree with your concept that "conscious awareness"
> is a sensible contingent. IMO "conscious awareness" is the quality of
> evolution to the social level. Oops Evolution! A value in existence.
>
> Me:
> Would you care to expand on your thoughts about "conscious awareness"
> growing out of the social level, or maybe that is the wrong way to put it,
> but what kind of awareness do you think it is that would emerge first?
"Conscious awareness" is a tautology. Proprietary awareness, and self
consciousness are my description of the DQ of proprietary awareness
(consciousness) from woman to the social level, step 4 in evolution. SOL is
the description of awareness to the intellectual level, 1+1=2 becomes the DQ
outer/inner sentient at the intellectual level. I do not see DQ as a
creator, but more as a marker which we can pay attention to for a change in
reality which is a value in existence.
> Oh, and I think you are right on with that remark on evolution.
>
> Regards
>
> Chris
Joe
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