On Sunday 6 April 2008 9:26 PM Dan writes to Everyone: <snip> > > Krimel said: > I'm not so sure that words _are_ ideas or that they determine ideas in the way you suggest. Rather I would hope that ideas determine what words we use and that the words we use modulate the tone or shade the meaning of the ideas we express. > > Matt: > Ah! Finally, a strictly philosophical topic. What is an idea if not words? I think the idea that ideas are pre-linguistic is a remnant of SOM. But I'm not sure I have the ingenuity to go from here in a convincing manner. Dan: An idea is a symbol or a concept that isn't necessary to put into words. An image, a sound, or even an odor could be an idea, or at least the germ of an idea. In the latter sense, ideas are pre-linguistic or perhaps under certain circumstances meta-linguistic might be a better way to put it. Some images go beyond words. Remember when (The Artist Formerly Known As) Prince took an unpronouncable symbol as his legal name? Fcusing on the meta-linguistic aspect of symbolic imagery might allow us to view art, mathematics, and even quantum theory as second cousins... kissing cousins, even. I think Joe often brings this up in his posts, though I have yet to grasp just how this works -- in any logically consistent manner -- as an extension of the MOQ. Just a thought, Dan Hi Dan and all, I was trained in Thomistic scholasticism which requires ³abstractions² for words. With a new viewpoint of ³experience² for words for which I credit Persig, I probably sound confusing. I am confused! You certainly have pinpointed what I am trying to express about ³multifaceted experience² in a meta-lingistic aspect of symbolic imagery. From the fourth level which I conceive of as proprietary awareness (consciousness) of an individual, the fifth level, the intellectual level, a relation of two, and beyond, a description of evolution using DQ imagery should be precise. There is no common language for that precision. So as not to be all over the place I propose a law for an order of existence, using the model of the musical Octave which has two aspects, different levels (order), and different values between the levels (shock). I am not original! I have borrowed this template from writers of esoteric literature like Maurice Nicoll. I don¹t mean to be obscure, but the description of what an awareness of DQ adds to experience leaves me flabbergasted. I call experience ³conscious² proprietary, or ³mechanical², common. IMO SOL is only ³conscious², a term from an evolution in consciousness. Joe
On 4/6/08 9:26 PM, "Dan Glover" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> >> Krimel said: >> I'm not so sure that words _are_ ideas or that they determine ideas in the >> way you suggest. Rather I would hope that ideas determine what words we use >> and that the words we use modulate the tone or shade the meaning of the ideas >> we express. >> >> Matt: >> Ah! Finally, a strictly philosophical topic. What is an idea if not words? I >> think the idea that ideas are pre-linguistic is a remnant of SOM. But I'm not >> sure I have the ingenuity to go from here in a convincing manner. > > Dan: > An idea is a symbol or a concept that isn't necessary to put into words. An > image, a sound, or even an odor could be an idea, or at least the germ of an > idea. In the latter sense, ideas are pre-linguistic or perhaps under certain > circumstances meta-linguistic might be a better way to put it. Some images go > beyond words. Remember when (The Artist Formerly Known As) Prince took an > unpronouncable symbol as his legal name? > > Fcusing on the meta-linguistic aspect of symbolic imagery might allow us to > view art, mathematics, and even quantum theory as second cousins... kissing > cousins, even. I think Joe often brings this up in his posts, though I have > yet to grasp just how this works -- in any logically consistent manner -- as > an extension of the MOQ. > > Just a thought, > > Dan > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > More immediate than e-mail? Get instant access with Windows Live Messenger. > http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_i > nstantaccess_042008 > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
