[Krimel] Linguistics is not my field but I believe there is a whole school of linguistics that would say the grammar precedes language. It is the underlying inherited structure of grammar that in fact produces language.
Ron: If you mean that our structure of perception and therefore our language to describe it has it's origins in the very fabric of how life responds to stimuli, I would have to ask you then about how You feel about Subject/Object metaphysics in this context. [Krimel] I was referring to Chomsky's concept of transformational grammar which as I understand it he claims is built in and the specific language that we learn more or less plugs into it. I don't know how SOM fits into this. All SOM means to me is that my experience of my foot is fundamentally different than my experience of my sock. Ron: I tend to think it emerges out of social complexity and the Need of language to be more precise in meaning. [Krimel] In this respect language seems very close to the intellectual level. It evolves faster that the other levels to accommodate new ideas and shades of meaning. Ron: I tend to favor A complex systems model in the development of intellect and societies. I think your theory plays a role but I think its way more complex Than cause and effect. If you wanted to look at it in those terms, then Intellect pervades the universe. [Krimel] As I said linguistics is not my field and this is not my theory. But complex systems can be governed by cause and effect and I don't see what any of this has to do with intellect pervading the universe. [Ron] But if you want to be accurate In assessing the origins of thought as it pragmatically applies To our culture then we have to look at the origins of our Logic and grammar in relation to it. [Krimel] If we did not have complex thoughts we would not have complex culture. The Primate order is filled with species that do have social structures and do not have language. If we seek to know about the origins of our culture then comparision with similar species is a good place to start. Then there is the paleo-archeological record and so forth... [Ron] So to address the question: Why does our culture think the way it does today? I feel the most Obvious Place to explore is the origin of our grammar and logic. To try to account for the origin and the cause effect relationship Of logic and perception, takes us of into conjecture and meaninglessness Not to mention leaving the initial question unaddressed. Why does our culture think the way it does? I take your Comments to mean that you feel that we think the way we do In terms of subjects and objects, as emergent from the universe. [Krimel] Sure I think that culture emerges from natural processes and I agree that language reflects the structure of our thoughts. Our culture is complex enough and old enough that there are written records that tell us the story of the evolution of western culture. I smell Plato. Wait, maybe it's my cast....yep it's my cast. Eeew Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
