btw the drivel i have issue with is the racist, patriotic stuff. but i won't say more than that.
--- On Thu, 24/7/08, Ian Glendinning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: Ian Glendinning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [MD] ufos, the patriarchy and science > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Received: Thursday, 24 July, 2008, 10:28 PM > Gav, thanks for joing up the dots ... > > Certainly if I had used the phrase "faith in > science" as I have many > times before, I would have been accused of drivel and > intent to > confuse. (My "best" piece on that was "End > of Faith in What ?" but > it's all drivel I'm sure.) > > I'll need to read you post again and comment further. > Ian > > On 7/23/08, gav <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > heya chickadees, > > think that we are getting closer to some sorta > breakthrough. > > > > a quote from terrence mckenna started some neurons > firing last night. - paraphrasing - if anyone honestly > reports a close encounter with alien beings it sounds like > the person is nuts or taking the piss. this, says terry, is > part of the point of this phenomenon. > > > > [btw, both terry and bill hicks maintain that they > have had close encounters and both were on psychoactives > when it happened - making their stories less convincing to > the 'authorities'] > > so what is the meaning of the ufo phenomenon? > > > > well according to jung and mckenna it is a modern > myth, whose purpose it is to ERODE FAITH IN SCIENCE. > > > > now this phrase - faith in science - is the one that > got me buzzing. faith is a social value, but isn't > science intellectual? > > > > dawkins and his ilk are examples of this 'science > as faith' breed. their belligerence precludes an open > and fair-minded pursuit of knowledge for its own sake - > they are ideologues. they are transparently tendentious - > seeking evidence for their own steadfast conclusions, > rather than being genuinely interested in reaching a new > conception that is capable of integrating and satisfying > seemingly opposed viewpoints. > > and this, as margaret and marsha will be aware, is > classic patriarchal bullying. > > > > science is patriarchal. all the big guns have been men > and it is this male, solar, rationalist perspective that > needs to be exposed as a faith (social value). > > > > as i have mentioned, the ufo phenomenon occurs in a > manner that makes corroboration difficult and marginalises > those that report such phenomena. it says, in effect, that > these folk imagined what happened - putting precedence not > with the EXPERIENCE of the individual but with an > explaining away of these experiences...not very MOQ. > > > > mckenna and jung think that the ufo phenomenon exists > to throw dogmatic (social) science into doubt....the > mystery remains unexplained...mckenna calls it the > insertion of the goddess (gaia) into the collective psyche. > > to be open to DQ is to be open to the mystery. the MOQ > is incontrovertibly mystical in essence. > > > > evolution requires an openness to DQ, by definition. > if we are to evolve (and i believe, along with millions of > others, that we have to evolve, that we are in the process > of an unprecedented evolutionary punctuation) we need to > let go of faith, of certainty. > > > > an aside: as i mentioned in a previous post, eckhart > tolle and oprah winfrey have teemed up and oprah is getting > a fair bit of shit from fundamental christians (social > value) because she is denying the 'one true way of > jesus' idea. she is saying that faith/belief is faux > spirituality (right on sis!); and that genuine spirituality > is felt, experienced - direct personal connection. this is > an opening up - and a moral stance according to the MOQ. > the intellectual level (authentic individual) trumps the > social level (passive belief) when there is conflict. > > > > pirsig points out that the original insights of > religious traditions end up getting strangled and obscured > by the vines of static knowledge that grow up around them. > the same can be said for science. just as whoever wins the > war writes the histories, so whoever runs the institutions > dictates what is accepted scientific belief. white men run > the institutions and of course the particular > characteristics of this group are reflected in how science > operates and what is proclaimed 'real' or not. > > > > whereto from here? > > well another familiar point to us moqers is the > psychedelic experience. pirsig's peyote experience, > apart from its direct value to his awareness and ideas, is > an example of something common to all indigenous cultures - > their grounding mechanisms. the shamen, rituals and > psychoactive plants and fungi of indigenous cultures are > there to skweegy the third eye so to speak. they clean away > the obfuscating debris of accumulated static patterns so > that DQ shines through - giving direction, coherence, > connection. in other words - ensuring the psychic health of > the community. > > > > we don't have this. the western culture is bereft > of these anchoring and guiding mechanisms and the result is > mass neurosis. the western culture is mentally ill, > obviously. we are fucking the planet, which is ourselves. > it don't get more stupid than that. > > > > we need more female voices! the feminine principle > must rise into awareness to balance our sick patriarchal > society - heed the wisdom in marsha's posts, in > margaret's, in the women around you. we men have to > balance ourselves - we need to look to the women in our > lives and, in particular, the one woman in all our lives - > gaia. nature is the teacher, nature is the tao, nature is > DQ. WE NEED TO STOP POLLUTING AND DESTROYING AND BEGIN TO > LIVE IN CONSTRUCTIVE HARMONY WITH THE EARTH. forgive the > capitalisation but really it is past time for all of us to > take responsibility for the situation. > > > > science is limited, as it stands. the MOQ can probably > widen the effective aegis of science because it recognises > value. this is a very important point - but value > recognition is experiential, aesthetic, immediate. it is > not about right and wrong; it is about beauty as truth. > > > > i am not saying we should gladly accomodate all points > of view. the drivel that comes from some on this list should > be honestly exposed as drivel (although there comes a time > to just ignore posters who refuse to evolve). DMB is a > champion at this. but even dmb is human and fallible and > capable of hubris (love ya mate). > > > > in closing a simple point: if we are to differentiate > between intellectual and social we need to pose the > existential question: what does this pattern mean to me? > how does it resonate with me - how do i feel about this > pattern? we are the litmus test. am i upholding this > pattern through habit or reaction (social), or does this > pattern help me become fully human - free, aware, > enlightened. > > > > for this is the purpose of intellect - enlightenment. > we now have no choice other than to become a planet of > enlightened beings....and fast. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Start at the new Yahoo!7 for a better online > experience. www.yahoo7.com.au > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > > Archives: > > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Start at the new Yahoo!7 for a better online experience. www.yahoo7.com.au Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
