Thanks for the clarification gav. Ian
On 7/24/08, gav <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > btw the drivel i have issue with is the racist, patriotic stuff. > but i won't say more than that. > > > --- On Thu, 24/7/08, Ian Glendinning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > From: Ian Glendinning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Subject: Re: [MD] ufos, the patriarchy and science > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Received: Thursday, 24 July, 2008, 10:28 PM > > Gav, thanks for joing up the dots ... > > > > Certainly if I had used the phrase "faith in > > science" as I have many > > times before, I would have been accused of drivel and > > intent to > > confuse. (My "best" piece on that was "End > > of Faith in What ?" but > > it's all drivel I'm sure.) > > > > I'll need to read you post again and comment further. > > Ian > > > > On 7/23/08, gav <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > heya chickadees, > > > think that we are getting closer to some sorta > > breakthrough. > > > > > > a quote from terrence mckenna started some neurons > > firing last night. - paraphrasing - if anyone honestly > > reports a close encounter with alien beings it sounds like > > the person is nuts or taking the piss. this, says terry, is > > part of the point of this phenomenon. > > > > > > [btw, both terry and bill hicks maintain that they > > have had close encounters and both were on psychoactives > > when it happened - making their stories less convincing to > > the 'authorities'] > > > so what is the meaning of the ufo phenomenon? > > > > > > well according to jung and mckenna it is a modern > > myth, whose purpose it is to ERODE FAITH IN SCIENCE. > > > > > > now this phrase - faith in science - is the one that > > got me buzzing. faith is a social value, but isn't > > science intellectual? > > > > > > dawkins and his ilk are examples of this 'science > > as faith' breed. their belligerence precludes an open > > and fair-minded pursuit of knowledge for its own sake - > > they are ideologues. they are transparently tendentious - > > seeking evidence for their own steadfast conclusions, > > rather than being genuinely interested in reaching a new > > conception that is capable of integrating and satisfying > > seemingly opposed viewpoints. > > > and this, as margaret and marsha will be aware, is > > classic patriarchal bullying. > > > > > > science is patriarchal. all the big guns have been men > > and it is this male, solar, rationalist perspective that > > needs to be exposed as a faith (social value). > > > > > > as i have mentioned, the ufo phenomenon occurs in a > > manner that makes corroboration difficult and marginalises > > those that report such phenomena. it says, in effect, that > > these folk imagined what happened - putting precedence not > > with the EXPERIENCE of the individual but with an > > explaining away of these experiences...not very MOQ. > > > > > > mckenna and jung think that the ufo phenomenon exists > > to throw dogmatic (social) science into doubt....the > > mystery remains unexplained...mckenna calls it the > > insertion of the goddess (gaia) into the collective psyche. > > > to be open to DQ is to be open to the mystery. the MOQ > > is incontrovertibly mystical in essence. > > > > > > evolution requires an openness to DQ, by definition. > > if we are to evolve (and i believe, along with millions of > > others, that we have to evolve, that we are in the process > > of an unprecedented evolutionary punctuation) we need to > > let go of faith, of certainty. > > > > > > an aside: as i mentioned in a previous post, eckhart > > tolle and oprah winfrey have teemed up and oprah is getting > > a fair bit of shit from fundamental christians (social > > value) because she is denying the 'one true way of > > jesus' idea. she is saying that faith/belief is faux > > spirituality (right on sis!); and that genuine spirituality > > is felt, experienced - direct personal connection. this is > > an opening up - and a moral stance according to the MOQ. > > the intellectual level (authentic individual) trumps the > > social level (passive belief) when there is conflict. > > > > > > pirsig points out that the original insights of > > religious traditions end up getting strangled and obscured > > by the vines of static knowledge that grow up around them. > > the same can be said for science. just as whoever wins the > > war writes the histories, so whoever runs the institutions > > dictates what is accepted scientific belief. white men run > > the institutions and of course the particular > > characteristics of this group are reflected in how science > > operates and what is proclaimed 'real' or not. > > > > > > whereto from here? > > > well another familiar point to us moqers is the > > psychedelic experience. pirsig's peyote experience, > > apart from its direct value to his awareness and ideas, is > > an example of something common to all indigenous cultures - > > their grounding mechanisms. the shamen, rituals and > > psychoactive plants and fungi of indigenous cultures are > > there to skweegy the third eye so to speak. they clean away > > the obfuscating debris of accumulated static patterns so > > that DQ shines through - giving direction, coherence, > > connection. in other words - ensuring the psychic health of > > the community. > > > > > > we don't have this. the western culture is bereft > > of these anchoring and guiding mechanisms and the result is > > mass neurosis. the western culture is mentally ill, > > obviously. we are fucking the planet, which is ourselves. > > it don't get more stupid than that. > > > > > > we need more female voices! the feminine principle > > must rise into awareness to balance our sick patriarchal > > society - heed the wisdom in marsha's posts, in > > margaret's, in the women around you. we men have to > > balance ourselves - we need to look to the women in our > > lives and, in particular, the one woman in all our lives - > > gaia. nature is the teacher, nature is the tao, nature is > > DQ. WE NEED TO STOP POLLUTING AND DESTROYING AND BEGIN TO > > LIVE IN CONSTRUCTIVE HARMONY WITH THE EARTH. forgive the > > capitalisation but really it is past time for all of us to > > take responsibility for the situation. > > > > > > science is limited, as it stands. the MOQ can probably > > widen the effective aegis of science because it recognises > > value. this is a very important point - but value > > recognition is experiential, aesthetic, immediate. it is > > not about right and wrong; it is about beauty as truth. > > > > > > i am not saying we should gladly accomodate all points > > of view. the drivel that comes from some on this list should > > be honestly exposed as drivel (although there comes a time > > to just ignore posters who refuse to evolve). DMB is a > > champion at this. but even dmb is human and fallible and > > capable of hubris (love ya mate). > > > > > > in closing a simple point: if we are to differentiate > > between intellectual and social we need to pose the > > existential question: what does this pattern mean to me? > > how does it resonate with me - how do i feel about this > > pattern? we are the litmus test. am i upholding this > > pattern through habit or reaction (social), or does this > > pattern help me become fully human - free, aware, > > enlightened. > > > > > > for this is the purpose of intellect - enlightenment. > > we now have no choice other than to become a planet of > > enlightened beings....and fast. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Start at the new Yahoo!7 for a better online > > experience. www.yahoo7.com.au > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > > > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > > > > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > > > Archives: > > > > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > > > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > > Archives: > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > > Start at the new Yahoo!7 for a better online experience. > www.yahoo7.com.au > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
