Hi Platt, > Platt: > Can you explain what you mean by "SOM culture conflict?" Can you give > some > examples of what "none us buys?" Are you referring to the conflict > between > socialism and free enterprise? Or the conflict between intellectuals and > the social order? > > Ron: > The Intellectual/social Platt: To me "intellectual/social" is an "MOQ culture conflict." Pirsig talks about it at length in Lila, explaining how the scientifically/materialistic- dominated intellectual level has really screwed up society by failing to
recognize society's role in keeping biological values under control. (Chapters 22 and 24) Ron: The scientifically/materialistic-dominated intellectual level is SOM. failing to recognize society's role is the SOM crisis. MoQ points this out distinctly, but from within they are paralyzed in the conflict. The wasp is merely exploiting an opportunity, It's the spiders confusion that is bringing it's demise. > Platt: > I ask because you vigorously defend America's foundation and principles, > i.e., values -- something I doubt you would do if it was "dangerous and > a > crisis" to do so. > > For me the MOQ is not something to be treated as something apart from > current conflicts. In fact, just the opposite. If it has any chance of > surviving, it must shed light on the problems of everyday life. > > Do you agree? > > Ron: > Quite certainly I agree, in my post to Arlo I stated that this > is the proving ground for MoQ. Because we are up against > a host of prejudices from both sides of the conflict, > the trick is to make sense of the situation which MoQ does. > The trouble is convincing others who are dug in on their > SOM positions. > It's not that these issues should'nt be debated but it seems > like you guys get drug into it till you can't see the forest > through the trees. The caricatures that are painted become cartoonish > and abstract to a point where it becomes a pointless squabble. > which is the paralysis. Fighting to a standstill and nothing is > resolved except making the other the symbol of all that you despise. > My appeal is that we step back, take a breather, re-asses the situation > in a more MoQ manner and start again fresh. No preconceptions and > I think you will both find you share more than you disagree. > the discussions would bear more fruit. > > It's just the venom and the hate is getting to terrible proportions > and it really doesn't need to if we keep MoQ glasses on the subject. > > I guess what I'm saying is that there are some ugly accusations being > thrown around and people get the wrong impression with SOM logic > that paints them into a corner unjustly. > > I really don't think you are a racist or a bigot, I really do think you > are about excellence, but boy, sometimes Platt, what you say can be very > easily > misinterpreted. I know you might say "tough that's THEIR problem" but > once > you get stuck with a moniker like that it makes you a target of ridicule > and it's difficult to get respect and have your words taken seriously. > I happen to think you have much to contribute and it would be just plain > stupid to allow yourself to be run out on this merit. > The lesson of all this, I think, is the approach to this intellectual/ > social conflict, how are we to gain the most ground in resolving it? > Conflict sure as hell isn't working, its the problem. > Some things ARE better than others. That's Value. But the value of > Particular something's are only assessable by the individual. The > dynamism (freedom) of the individual may be measured in a society. It is > by this > criteria that comparisons may be drawn and arguments can be made > intellectually. > > If you can prove your point without pissing people off you are more > likely to change their mind. That's all I'm saying. Platt: Ideally, am with you. Problem is that most every time I express a conservative viewpoint, some here go spastic. I suggest it takes two to tango at the intellectual level. Ron: precisely My point, Platt. The conflict goes deep, the SOM residue is difficult to overcome, I can attest to that personally. Thanks for helping me to clarify your position. Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
