Hi Ron, > Platt: > Can you explain what you mean by "SOM culture conflict?" Can you give > some > examples of what "none us buys?" Are you referring to the conflict > between > socialism and free enterprise? Or the conflict between intellectuals and > the social order? > > Ron: > The Intellectual/social
To me "intellectual/social" is an "MOQ culture conflict." Pirsig talks about it at length in Lila, explaining how the scientifically/materialistic- dominated intellectual level has really screwed up society by failing to recognize society's role in keeping biological values under control. (Chapters 22 and 24) > Platt: > I ask because you vigorously defend America's foundation and principles, > i.e., values -- something I doubt you would do if it was "dangerous and > a > crisis" to do so. > > For me the MOQ is not something to be treated as something apart from > current conflicts. In fact, just the opposite. If it has any chance of > surviving, it must shed light on the problems of everyday life. > > Do you agree? > > Ron: > Quite certainly I agree, in my post to Arlo I stated that this > is the proving ground for MoQ. Because we are up against > a host of prejudices from both sides of the conflict, > the trick is to make sense of the situation which MoQ does. > The trouble is convincing others who are dug in on their > SOM positions. > It's not that these issues should'nt be debated but it seems > like you guys get drug into it till you can't see the forest > through the trees. The caricatures that are painted become cartoonish > and abstract to a point where it becomes a pointless squabble. > which is the paralysis. Fighting to a standstill and nothing is > resolved except making the other the symbol of all that you despise. > My appeal is that we step back, take a breather, re-asses the situation > in a more MoQ manner and start again fresh. No preconceptions and > I think you will both find you share more than you disagree. > the discussions would bear more fruit. > > It's just the venom and the hate is getting to terrible proportions > and it really doesn't need to if we keep MoQ glasses on the subject. > > I guess what I'm saying is that there are some ugly accusations being > thrown around and people get the wrong impression with SOM logic > that paints them into a corner unjustly. > > I really don't think you are a racist or a bigot, I really do think you > are about excellence, but boy, sometimes Platt, what you say can be very > easily > misinterpreted. I know you might say "tough that's THEIR problem" but > once > you get stuck with a moniker like that it makes you a target of ridicule > and it's difficult to get respect and have your words taken seriously. > I happen to think you have much to contribute and it would be just plain > stupid to allow yourself to be run out on this merit. > The lesson of all this, I think, is the approach to this intellectual/ > social conflict, how are we to gain the most ground in resolving it? > Conflict sure as hell isn't working, its the problem. > Some things ARE better than others. That's Value. But the value of > Particular something's are only assessable by the individual. The > dynamism (freedom) of the individual may be measured in a society. It is > by this > criteria that comparisons may be drawn and arguments can be made > intellectually. > > If you can prove your point without pissing people off you are more > likely to change their mind. That's all I'm saying. Ideally, am with you. Problem is that most every time I express a conservative viewpoint, some here go spastic. I suggest it takes two to tango at the intellectual level. Thanks, Ron. Platt Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
