[Magnus] The term "quantum particle" is probably a contradiction in itself. Something
like quantum entity may be a better one. Anyway, just as my body is completely exchanged (atom wise) every 7 or so years, it's of course possible that inorganic particles can be renewed in a similar fashion, but I'm not sure about me being composed of different quantum entities every instant? [Krimel] I have never been sure what to take away from quantum revelations. Mainly it suggests to me that reality is way weirder that one might think and that some things really are outside of our ability to perceive and apprehend a prior. I think it is useful for telling why some of our ideas are probably wrong, like the notion that anyone, even God, could move back and forth along the same time line. But talk about what QM "means" makes my palms sweat. [Magnus] If you use "pattern" here, don't you mean a static pattern of value? And in that case, you should also state which kind/level of pattern. I think the human "self" you refer to is best described as intellectual patterns. Even if someone loses both his legs and arms and then some, I guess you would still consider him to be "himself". On the other hand, after a serious stroke, many people are not themselves anymore. [Krimel] Exactly which is why I think pooh-poohing neurophysiology as being metaphysically irrelevant is a crock. I am afraid I would have to classify a human being, any human being as a biological pattern of value. Social patterns of value would exist in the interaction of two or more individuals and intellectual patterns I think are best represented on the internet. [Magnus] And since the intellectual patterns of a person is dependent on all lower levels of the body, then if the body vanishes so does the "self". It sounded as if you thought the self could still be around even if the body disappeared, or perhaps I misunderstood you? [Krimel] I think in any hierarchical system the upper levels depend on continue stasis at the lower levels. Each level emerges from the levels below it and is largely constrain by the patterns below it. Upper level patterns can not specifically be determined by the levels below them but their general outlines and the limits or range of possibilities is definitely determined by the lower level patterns. For example the biological need to eat demands that competition for food resources will be socially mediated. The lack of wings means that there will be little competition for air space. Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
