And if I do try to define events as "substances" (unknowingly), then I would like to clear this up for myself.
thanks. SA P.S. We could hold off on this "substances" v. "experience" questioning until others chim in. I'll wait. --- On Thu, 8/28/08, Heather Perella <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: Heather Perella <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [MD] Core problemS > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Date: Thursday, August 28, 2008, 4:09 AM > Ron, > > Are you suggesting that what I said deals with > "substance" and not experience? If so, maybe > I'm either not communicating very well or maybe I do try > to define events as "substances"? > > SA > > > --- On Thu, 8/28/08, Ron Kulp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > From: Ron Kulp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Subject: Re: [MD] Core problemS > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Date: Thursday, August 28, 2008, 3:07 AM > > Ron, > > > > I find this to be contradictory and I know we (as > in > > this forum) > > have had discussion on whether the levels are > continuous > > and overlap, or > > are discrete and conflict. But, maybe what I put > forward > > below might > > help clarify these two seemingly contradictory > passages by > > Pirsig. > > > > My take on levels and what's between the > levels: I > > find static > > quality to emerge from dynamic quality, thus, it's > not > > linear for me, > > it's more like rising mountains. Here's my > > analogy. The valleys are > > dynamic quality and the mountains rising out of > dynamic > > quality are > > static quality. Static quality rising out of dynamic > > quality, but never > > detaches from dynamic quality. One could still find > > dynamic quality in > > the mountains with the blooming flowers emerging from > the > > mountains, so, > > in this case, the mountains are dynamic quality and > the > > blooming > > emerging flowers are static quality. Simply put, > static > > quality emerges > > out of dynamic quality but never detaches from dynamic > > quality and > > between static patterns one may find dynamic quality > as the > > transitional > > state between static patterns where the static > patterns are > > not readily > > defined. > > > > > > Anyways, to not detract from your original > question > > too far, I find > > this to be very conflicting. Pirsig says one thing > and > > then says the > > complete opposite, unless... When Pirsig says > 'but not > > all biological > > patterns are social' this is the discrete part. > What > > about the 'all > > social patterns are biological', maybe the > defining > > here is not focused > > on 'What are the social patterns', so, > therefore > > the definition is about > > biological patterns only, but once one defines the > social > > patterns or > > the social patterns emerge from the biological > patterns a > > clear > > distinction can be made, thus, a clear discrete > > categorization can be > > developed. To make a clear distinction between social > and > > biological > > patterns, they need to be discrete patterns, patterns > that > > differ from > > each other. > > > > > > what do you think? > > > > Ron: > > I still believe seeing Quality as a substance is the > wrong > > way to go. > > I think Quality as description of experience comes > closer > > to what > > Pirsig is talking about. Experience is infinitely > definable > > thus > > remains undefined. > > > > I'd like to hear what others think before I chime > in > > any further. > > > > Thanks SA > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > > Archives: > > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
