Ron, Good effort but I really don't think scanning the dictionary for alternate meanings is the way out of this pickle. Pirsig's usage of the word discrete is quite clear. He reemphasizes the meaning by stating. "They are discreet. They have very little to do with one another." He even provides an example, "An excellent analogy to the independence of the levels, Phaedrus thought, is the relation of hardware to software in a computer."
The way out is to acknowledge that we create levels on the fly and apply them to our immediate context. There is no magic to the four MoQ levels, they are JUST one way of seeing things. There are lots more. We use these "levels on the fly" all the time as we zoom in, zoom out and refocus. You seem to be making some connection between taxonomy and topology. I don't get it. Krimel ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ron: Dmb, Magnus, I asked this question to see what members would say, Krimel brought up that he took Pirsigs description of discrete levels quite seriously and that the general consensus was that this was also taken seriously by the status quo. I believe the term was "MoQ heresy" to suggest otherwise. dis*crete -adjective 1. apart or detached from others; separate; distinct: six discrete parts. 2. consisting of or characterized by distinct or individual parts; discontinuous. 3. Mathematics. a. (of a topology or topological space) having the property that every subset is an open set. b. defined only for an isolated set of points: a discrete variable. c. using only arithmetic and algebra; not involving calculus: discrete methods. The question is, in what way did Pirsig intend the term to mean in reference to the level system? The term discrete -Synonyms 1. different, individual, unconnected. This doesn't seem to coincide with the description in the Turner letter, but, when I explored the mathematical term and it's reference to topology and "topological space", things began to parallel in meaning. In other words what is discrete is the MoQ taxonomy. Not any entity or pattern "in itself". Topological space is an area in which patterns of type operate in. The patterns or sets are continuous but the space of likeness they operate within is discrete. Therefore tiny variables may gather to influence or emerge into other discrete topological spaces. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topological_space Discrete in this context refers to categories of taxonomy. not to patterns of value themselves. It is value which creates taxonomic meaning therefore human taxonomic structures are reflecting human values. Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
