At 10:58 AM 10/21/2008, you wrote:
>woods previously:
> Are you trying to formalize or put into a formula what is
> valued? Are you trying to find a way to put into a formula how
we are connected and
>interrelated with this world?
Marsha:
I thought you wanted to change the discussion from the nature of
spovs to how value creates subject and objects. So: When a tree is
experienced (valued), the tree (object) exists and the I (subject),
who experienced the tree, exist. Experience (value) creates both
subject and object. Does my statement not belong in this discussion?
woods:
Oh, I see what you mean. Thanks. Your statement does belong
in this discussion. What do you mean by "nature of spov's"?
How "value creates subject and objects" is not what I'm referring too.
You are correct on this.
For if we are to look into this "nature of spov's", or
spov's in any way, then we are not to take that step into creating
subject and
object, though, without taking that step into subject and object I find that
we look into valuing (itself) or the valuing process we find
inorganic, organic,
social, and intellectual spov's.
We find these different spov's valuing without
expanding into the subject and object aspect created out of this
valuing process.
This valuing process is before subject and object. This valuing
process is intellectual,
social, organic, and inorganic, also, dynamic valuing. I see a difference.
Yes, there are many ways to value spovs. I am considering the
ontology of spovs. Their nature.
Marsha:
Of course patterns change. The tree pattern of me is different than
the tree pattern of you, but there is probably some sameness and
overlap too. Yes, yes, patterns are constantly changing.
woods:
This might be a "nature of spov's" that you were referring too. "change"
Yes. To my understanding everything is ever-changing.
Marsha:
I, too, had found quietness before I read ZMM. I had been practicing
yoga and meditating for a couple of years.
woods:
Even the word quietness? You knew and spoke this word: quietness? I find
this interesting if you did, even if not, since Pirsig did, I did, I
find this word
is somewhat of a more common usage due to experience by numerous people.
This might delve into another nature of spov, not sure yet.
A hatha yoga class starts with a guided meditation to quiet mind and
body. The exact word 'quietness' was often used. I was taking
classes to become a yoga teacher, so I am very familiar with the
concept as a potential teacher, a student and a meditator. I used
this type of guided meditation with non-yoga groups too.
Marsha:
What seemed to be happening is that you preferred a different
topic. That's fine, your topic is interesting, and it doesn't take
anything away from my interest in the nature of patterns.
I'm going to start looking into the relationship between the MOQ and
time. I found Ant's paper, and it seem like a good place to start.
http://robertpirsig.org/MOQTime.htm
woods:
Maybe time will help in this nature of spov's your valuing. You
see I feel we are each moving along a certain pretractory, if you will,
in which our valuing is moving us along. We come across a valuing
process of another person or tree or what have you, and our valuing
may change, expand, or be confirmed. If we come across another
valuing that is different, then there are so many events they may
emerge from such a meeting of differing values. I'm focusing
on these values we are each introducing to each other. To say
your focusing on patterns, but from what orientation. Your mentioning
time. That is good. Time is a certain/specific value that influences
the pattern in which a value will be. In other words, when you read up
on time, then your valuing, the values you will find (thus, not only you),
will be patterned in accord with Time. Value is open to anything. If you
are learning about Time, then the pattern you'll find will be Time and Time
will be the valuing process. Thus, the valuing process if you stay
with Time,
will be a valuing process that values Time.
It'a valuing ever-changing, collections of overlapping, interrelated,
inorganic, biological, social and intellectual, static patterns of
value. Yes?
I'm finding a pattern, the pattern, or patterns will be a
pattern of what is being
valued. Thus, with Time, the pattern you'll find will be Time for
that's we're value
is leading you to go, if you do go there. So all the patterns
you'll notice will
be about Time. Now say, you delve into numbers, well then, patterns
will become
all about numbers for that's we're the valuing process is going or
happening at that
moment. A tree has a pattern when in how its' branches reach in a
certain direction.
Patterns happen in accord with the valuing process that is
occuring. Patterns are traced
out by certain/specific values. Quiet valuing has no specific
patterns. I'm not saying
the goal has to be quiet valuing or to find out the nature of
spov's. We'll learn
all kinds of stuff in life. And life will emerge in all kinds of
ways, thus, pattern into
all kinds of ways. I bring up quiet valuing as a point of
orientation in which patterns
emerge from.
Maybe?
My life is quiet. But more zazen. More going nowhere. Lately, I've
been singing this lullaby to myself.
Marsha
.
.
The Universe is uncaused, like a net of jewels in which each is a
reflection of all the others in a fantastic, interrelated harmony without end.
.
.
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