>woods previously:
> Are you trying to formalize or put into a formula what is
> valued? Are you trying to find a way to put into a formula how we are
> connected and
>interrelated with this world?
Marsha:
I thought you wanted to change the discussion from the nature of
spovs to how value creates subject and objects. So: When a tree is
experienced (valued), the tree (object) exists and the I (subject),
who experienced the tree, exist. Experience (value) creates both
subject and object. Does my statement not belong in this discussion?
woods:
Oh, I see what you mean. Thanks. Your statement does belong
in this discussion. What do you mean by "nature of spov's"?
How "value creates subject and objects" is not what I'm referring too.
You are correct on this. For if we are to look into this "nature of spov's",
or
spov's in any way, then we are not to take that step into creating subject and
object, though, without taking that step into subject and object I find that
we look into valuing (itself) or the valuing process we find inorganic,
organic,
social, and intellectual spov's. We find these different spov's valuing
without
expanding into the subject and object aspect created out of this valuing
process.
This valuing process is before subject and object. This valuing process is
intellectual,
social, organic, and inorganic, also, dynamic valuing. I see a difference.
Marsha:
Of course patterns change. The tree pattern of me is different than
the tree pattern of you, but there is probably some sameness and
overlap too. Yes, yes, patterns are constantly changing.
woods:
This might be a "nature of spov's" that you were referring too. "change"
Marsha:
I, too, had found quietness before I read ZMM. I had been practicing
yoga and meditating for a couple of years.
woods:
Even the word quietness? You knew and spoke this word: quietness? I find
this interesting if you did, even if not, since Pirsig did, I did, I find this
word
is somewhat of a more common usage due to experience by numerous people.
This might delve into another nature of spov, not sure yet.
Marsha:
Are you lecturing me about quietness? Do you think my interest in
the nature of spovs is without spirit?
woods:
No. Far from this. I found this being put on the table of discussion
in this thread has helped reassure, well, maybe for me or you too, but I
don't want to put words in your mouth, a recentering. To make sure
we're on the right track.
Marsha:
What seemed to be happening is that you preferred a different
topic. That's fine, your topic is interesting, and it doesn't take
anything away from my interest in the nature of patterns.
I'm going to start looking into the relationship between the MOQ and
time. I found Ant's paper, and it seem like a good place to start.
http://robertpirsig.org/MOQTime.htm
woods:
Maybe time will help in this nature of spov's your valuing. You
see I feel we are each moving along a certain pretractory, if you will,
in which our valuing is moving us along. We come across a valuing
process of another person or tree or what have you, and our valuing
may change, expand, or be confirmed. If we come across another
valuing that is different, then there are so many events they may
emerge from such a meeting of differing values. I'm focusing
on these values we are each introducing to each other. To say
your focusing on patterns, but from what orientation. Your mentioning
time. That is good. Time is a certain/specific value that influences
the pattern in which a value will be. In other words, when you read up
on time, then your valuing, the values you will find (thus, not only you),
will be patterned in accord with Time. Value is open to anything. If you
are learning about Time, then the pattern you'll find will be Time and Time
will be the valuing process. Thus, the valuing process if you stay with Time,
will be a valuing process that values Time.
I'm finding a pattern, the pattern, or patterns will be a pattern of what is
being
valued. Thus, with Time, the pattern you'll find will be Time for that's we're
value
is leading you to go, if you do go there. So all the patterns you'll notice
will
be about Time. Now say, you delve into numbers, well then, patterns will
become
all about numbers for that's we're the valuing process is going or happening at
that
moment. A tree has a pattern when in how its' branches reach in a certain
direction.
Patterns happen in accord with the valuing process that is occuring. Patterns
are traced
out by certain/specific values. Quiet valuing has no specific patterns. I'm
not saying
the goal has to be quiet valuing or to find out the nature of spov's. We'll
learn
all kinds of stuff in life. And life will emerge in all kinds of ways, thus,
pattern into
all kinds of ways. I bring up quiet valuing as a point of orientation in which
patterns
emerge from.
Maybe?
woods
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