Bodvar: Much like Europe in general being helped by the Marshall Plan after WW2 and then turning against the USA. OK, there may be many sides to this.
Andre: Agree Bodvar, pity the politicians stuffed it up really. We need one strong EU, but as hinted at, the rejection was also a signal to int. PoV's to stay in touch with your base!! Bodvar: You have a gift of writing interesting posts Andr?, a welcome respite from the US election that has invaded the discussion. Andre; Thank you, as mentioned to woods it was/is like a news show Bodvar: I voted "yes" in the two referendum held in Norway (1971 and - 94) but regrettably this country consists of square-heads who believe that the EU is "out to get our resources", not realizing that the big countries sacrifice the most and the small gain the most by being members. Andre: Must come up for Holland here Bodvar, as a small country it makes a huge contribution to the EU. (Of course this is because they're also filthy rich, highly efficient, make optimum use of young labor by paying them peanuts, chucks anyone over 50 out of the labour market (including me), and begins testing babies at 2 years of age to ensure proper development of skills in anticipation of learning difficulties at school, in the process making sure the right attitudes will be formed so that when young and work they will accept peanuts, accept what happens to them when reaching the age of Abraham and with a little support and psychological counselling accept voluntary euthanasia when reaching the age of 65.) I can be a cynical bastard you know. Bodvar: As said, highly interesting, however IMO the murder of Fortuyn and Van Gogh was the Muslim immigrants who believe that their religious codes are to be implemented in Western Europe. A Norwegian publisher was shot after launching Rushdie's "Satanic Verses". Who did it has never been discovered, but surely a fanatic out to execute Khomeini's "fatwah". The said anger and resentment is the intellect- steeped Holl?nders feeling their culture threatened .... and I'd say most justified. Andre: Agree, and said muslem man was 1st generation Dutch.Moroccans are allowed to carry 2 passports; one Dutch, one Moroccan. Unfortunately the unrest still hasn't settled. Bodvar: Even if the goods is made in China it has the same effect as cheap labor and this I believe is unavoidable, it will force Holland as well as Norway to develop new fields. Andre: Again agree Bodvar but I was compressing these things to create a picture for woods to understand the context of the rejection of the EU constitution. Many Dutch people, and this hurts especially the older ones ( eg 50+ group) feel the treat of loss of jobs (and actual loss of jobs) from within (the EU) and outside the EU ( f.ex China). They see their hard worked-for social securities (i.e.pensions/benefits to avoid falling into a poverty trap when retired) potentially go up in smoke. Really, when you lose your job in Holland and are over 50 you can shake it (as the saying goes). Nobody will employ you. Why the heck do you think I ended up in China? Bodvar: Lots of sense, hope mine does and I don't sound like a cryptofascist...... like I did to DMB. Andre: No you don't. Bodvar: This depends on how the intellectual level is interpreted - as well as the social. As said, resenting foreign labor and/or cheap imported goods is hardly a longing for a social-values-run-society. Andre: I hope that my explanation above clarifies this.Maybe you disagree? Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
