On Saturday 01 November 2008 10:04 AM Bo writes to Horse: > Hi Horse > > 1 Nov. you wrote to Platt > >> Just a minor point - why do equate reason (or "reason alone") >> with SOM. Surely reason is an intellectual POV and not a whole >> metaphysical system. > > Platt is most justifyed in equating SOM and Reason. Reason is > objectivity itself (not in the usual "I have reason to > believe... etc.) but as "... contrasted with emotions and > instincts" (as my dictionary says) and translated into moqish > becomes; (Intellect) as contrasted with society and biology. > Most apt. Show me one pattern you deem intellectual that's not > a S/O derivative. SOM is no metaphysical system after being > subsumed by the MOQ. > > Bo
Hi Horse, Bo, and all, I search for meaningful analogies and metaphors to describe DQ/SQ to give a fuller expression to a difficult Undefined/Defined, DQ/SQ metaphysics. SOM is a good analogy for undefined reason, an intellectual POV, since on this list SOM has been shown to not equate to MOQ. In my search I find Conscious/Mechanical metaphysics, to be a good analogy to MOQ. Magnus proposed a Big-Bang/Matter description for the inorganic level. I find that most apt since Big-Bang is also a good analogy to DQ. How are Conscious, and Big-Bang analogous to DQ? They both stand outside of definition, and are descriptive terms. Everyone rightly assumes they are Conscious. In a description of behavior I almost always equivocate between mechanical-unconscious motivation and conscious-undefined motivation for my behavior. Only the latter requires SOL for a descriptive interpretation of undefined, defined activity, the intellectual level. For the former, mathematics is a proper language. Joe >> >> Platt Holden wrote: >>> Hi Chris, >>> >>> >>>> I do not disagree that a lower level pattern may be overlaid and >>>> controlled by a higher one, all I'm saying is that intellect >>>> doesn't control the social level only because we have democracy. >>>> Intellect controls the social level when intellectual values are >>>> always more central than social ones. I can imagine that when >>>> everyone within a democracy let's rationality supersede social >>>> level values every time they are in conflict - that would be the >>>> ideal state for the intellectual level. >>>> >>> >>> Two problems with relying on intellectual level rationality.1) >>> Reason alone (SOM) doesn't provide a basis for moral judgments. 2) >>> "So convenient it is to be a rational creature, since it enables us >>> to find or make a reason for everything one has a mind to do." -- >>> Benjamin Franklin. Obviously 1 and 2 are related. Example: In the >>> current presidential contest there is no lack of reasons on either >>> side to cast one's vote. >>> >>> Platt >>> >>> >>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>> Archives: >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ >>> >>> >> >> -- >> >> Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of >> arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but to skid >> in sideways, chocolate in one hand, wine in the other, body thoroughly >> used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"... >> Hunter S Thompson >> >> >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ >> >> > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
