Hi Ron
On 4 Nov. you wrote:
Bo had said:
> "SOM is no metaphysical system after being subsumed by the MOQ. "
Horse commented:
> As far as I'm aware, even if the MOQ does subsume SOM (it doesn't -
> it's a competing Intellectual pattern of Value and the MOQ is in
> opposition to it) this doesn't alter SOM's existence as a metaphysical
> system.
Ron now (to Horse)
> Hello, while I do agree with you about MoQ being one of many
> intellectual patterns I'd argue with Pirsig regarding mathematics and
> logic not having subject-object construction. Subject/object
> constructions are historically dominated by essentialism. both logic
> and mathematics are predicated on "entities". abstract entities that
> have no corresponding expierience. thus western definitions of
> "reason" and"logic" are encompassed by a wider notion of essentialsim.
> which is, as Bo correctly points out, the definition of the
> intellectual level per western thought.
You seemingly agree with me that mathematics is S/O-based, but this
agreement is based on the .
"Skilled manipulation of abstract symbols that have no
corresponding particular experience and which behave
according to rules of their own".
which was Pirsig's effort to improve on the ill-conceived 4th. level
without accepting the SOL.
Mathematics is S/O because it was a newfangled objective, rational
approach (to the age-old craft of calculation) that began around the
same time as SOM emerged in Greece (according to ZAMM) The said
age-old calculation was applying LOGIC by the said "skilled
manipulation ..." and something that the social age (level) people were
as good at as ourselves.
> But, The intellectual level as defined by western thought does not
> encompass all intellectual patterns only those patterns which recognize
> essentialism and it's assumptions.
Nonsense. "Western thought" doesn't know or recognize any
"intellectual level" because it IS the intellectual level, encompasses
every last bit of it and can't see beyond it. Elementary Dr. Kulp
Bo
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