Hi Bo, Ignore that closing para you didn't follow ... I did say I was maybe being crass / facetious ... I really am getting bored with the problem you are still wrestling with.
As far as what MoQ or Q or DQ/SQ "is" ... go with Steve's words, not mine, he still has some patience. I'm not into definitions or pedantry (or even metaphysics) just pragmatism, like Pirsig, ... radical pragmatism hopefully, (but I await DMB's blessing there, perhaps Steve can help). I'm just saying it / they "describe" reality as pragmatically as any model of reality I've come across ... and like you, I'm no spring chicken. You see a ( SOMist / logical) problem (a bad thing). I see quality (a good thing). So, moving to you final core point here ... the distinction between "pre-intellect" vs "S/O" which as you say is closer to the problem (rather than the "S" vs "O" split) ... but it's the same problem, you just moved it. You are that schizophrenic SOMist/MOQist still trying to define the "objects" (discrete, definable entities) that the MoQ is made of. Which is more absurd, your SOMist/MQOist schizophrenia, or the fact that the Quality basis of MoQ is indefinable to a SOMist, and recursively self-describing (by participation and pragmatic use) to a MoQist ? You're right, this is a biggy. Ian On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 5:11 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Ian, Steve, Craig, All > > (I change the subject line because here we are on to something big) > > 24 Nov. Ian wrote: > >> So Craig, Steve, ... that SOMist discrepancy (problem) between >> concepts and SOMist reality, that inevitable, (fundamental) >> relationship between the static and dynamic, so hard to define in >> SOMism, is recast by MoQism as a reality more fundamental than SOmist >> reality. > > Agree with Ian about MOQ postulating a reality more fundamental than > SOM's, hopefully he agrees with me that this reality is the DQ/SQ one > ...not a Quality/MOQ, because the latter - in the reality/concept form - > is merely the S/O one. > >> At the risk of being crass, we change the name for this thing bad >> (problem / discrepancy) to good (quality / fundamental reality) and >> get on with living quality. Are we nearly there yet ? Ian > > I had problems following this, but having I read Craig' below .... well I'm > not all sure, maybe Ian will elaborate. > > Craig had quoted LILA: > >> > "In his last unfinished work, Some Problems of Philosophy, James >> > had condensed this description to a single sentence: "There must >> > always be a discrepancy between concepts and reality, because the >> > former are static and discontinuous while the latter is dynamic and >> > flowing." Here James had chosen exactly the same words Phaedrus had >> > used for the basic subdivision of the Metaphysics of Quality. What >> > the Metaphysics of Quality adds to James's pragmatism and his >> > radical empiricism is the idea that the primal reality from which >> > subjects and objects spring is value. By doing so it seems to unite >> > pragmatism and radical empiricism into a single fabric." ( RMP, >> > "Lila", p. 418) > > William James was a par with ZMM's Phaedrus by having found a pre- > something that had been split S/O, but HERE he speaks about the > discrepancy between the S and O, not the one between the pre- > something and the S/O. This point must be kept clear or all goes > haywire. Phaedrus had called the pre-something "pre-intellectual" and > the S/O "intellectual", but here for some inexplicable reason he > equalizes MOQ's dynamic/static discrepancy with the reality/concept - > which is a variant of the S/O - so no wonder many have gone astray > here. > > Bo > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
