At 12:11 PM 11/28/2008, you wrote:
Marsha, i have always liked Taoism - and was keen on Buddhism too for a long
time - Krishnamurti though i found cuts through the dogma and avoids the
woolly mysticism. I just dont think there is another shore though for
Kieffer - when he dies all his patterns will disintegrate except for the
ones he leaves in other peoples minds.
-KO
KO,
I think it is the Dalai Lama that speaks of Coffee-table
Buddhism. It all depends how seriousess. The first time I read
Nagarjuna's Mulamadhyamakakarika (Jay Garfield), I was
hooked. Nagarjuna's MKK is not dogma, and that was just the
beginning. Some of the books I've read and thought about are
unbelievably mind-blowing and not the least bit woolly anything.
I never considered that to reach the other shore was to die. Unless
you mean the kind of dying you do at each moment anyway. I do
believe reaching the other shore is to have one's point-of-view
severely altered, but then mountains are mountains again so who knows
what it is like. I've already confessed to being adrift and hugging
the raft. And I don't know what to think about reincarnation. You
know there is Western Buddhism, and I've heard there is something
called American Buddhism. Sounds scary.
What exactly is mysticism? I've had some pretty bizarre
experiences, but don't know where the threshold for mystical
experience lies. And who could I trust to explain
them? Neuroscience? I don't think so. My
family? Nope. Ministers? No way, Jose! Do you think there is a
scale somewhere that goes from really weird on one side to mystical
on the other side? Sorry, I'm getting silly now.
Marsha
2008/11/28 MarshaV <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> KO,
>
> I sometimes pretend to be angry. I hardly ever am. But of course now that
> I've said that, I will be tested.
>
> I think the raft parable concerns what should be done once you have reached
> the other shore. I just pointed out that a raft is useful to help get
> across.
>
> I am very taken by Eastern thought. I have been since I first read
> Krishnamurti some twenty-five years ago. I don't know how to explain my
> attraction. It was intense right from the beginning.
>
> Sorry I didn't mean to confuse you.
>
>
> Marsha
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> At 02:56 AM 11/28/2008, you wrote:
>
>> Marsha, i am impressed by your reply - that you didnt react angrily to my
>> dismissal of your passage; but i still cannot take anything useful from
>> your
>> parable.
>>
>> -KO
>>
>> 2008/11/27 MarshaV <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>
>> > At 01:49 PM 11/27/2008, KO wrote:
>> >
>> > Marsha, you know i was referring to Pao-t'ung's message;
>> >> all those other shores, true sources, original face, unborn,
>> >> free spirits, etc etc - it is too vague.
>> >>
>> >
>> > KO,
>> >
>> > I presented this quote because it refers to the raft parable, that is,
>> > needing assistance until one realizes fully.
>> >
>> >
>> > And the last two sentences - why does he have to be so
>> >> obscure?
>> >>
>> >
>> > Some of the MOQ seems obscure. Is it?
>> >
>> >
>> > I suppose if all that stuff doesnt make sense to me that
>> >> must mean that i am not spiritual enough, or not
>> >> compassionate enough, or not sensitive enough.
>> >>
>> >
>> > Not so. It may mean that you are not familiar with the raft parable and
>> > its association.
>> >
>> >
>> > I like the Tao Te Ching alright but that passage only
>> >> depresses me.
>> >>
>> >
>> > I would imagine that raft comes in many shapes and colors. The MOQ
>> would
>> > be one of them.
>> >
>> >
>> > I cant give you an interpretation because
>> >> the passage is just too inpenetrable for me.
>> >>
>> >
>> > Okay. I thought there was some in particular you wanted to challenge.
>> >
>> > (continued below)
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > 2008/11/27 MarshaV <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > KO,
>> >> >
>> >> > I'd be curious to what message you are questioning, and your
>> >> interpretation
>> >> > of it?
>> >> >
>> >> > Marsha
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > At 05:23 AM 11/27/2008, you wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> Marhsa, are you open to the idea that the message may
>> >> >>be misleading, impractical and impossible;
>> >>
>> >
>> > I am open to the fact that the message may be beyond my understanding.
>> I
>> > worry about this. I sometimes wish I had a teacher, but I've heard
>> RamDas
>> > say a teacher will play to the expectations of the student. - No, I do
>> not
>> > think it is impractical. Impossible? Sometimes.
>> >
>> >
>> > >> it is scary to cast off ideas that we have clung
>> >> >> to for years.
>> >>
>> >
>> > Sometimes it's hard, sometimes it easy. Sometimes it is hard because
>> it's
>> > so easy.
>> >
>> >
>> > Marsha
>> >
>> >
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>
> .
> .
>
> Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars.........
> .
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