[Krimel]
I don't know enough about Islam, radical or
otherwise, to comment on that but I would say you
are wrong to claim that fundamentalist
Christianity is anti-esoteric. In fact I would say the opposite.
[Arlo]
Well I am sure now we will begin our journey of
defining "esoteric". :-) I'd argue that you are
confusing "miraculous" with "esoteric". Certainly
the fundamentalist's "personal relationship with
Jesus" is "miraculous", but the distinction is
that for the fundamentalist Jesus is an actual
person, whose description as a being created by
the sexual union of God with a mortal female.
Jesus is not a "metaphor" for anything, it is not
a myth or a finger or a story or anything of the
sort. There is no esotericism involved, what "is"
is exactly and literally described in The One True Book of The One True God.
[Krimel]
The holy rollers are the ones to incorporate
mystical experiences directly into their services.
[Arlo]
As with "faith healing", I'd say again that this
is "miraculous" but not an esoteric understanding
of the underlying myths (in this case, Christianity) involved.
By the way, although Wikipedia recognizes that
many dispute certain inclusions on this list, it
points out some historical esoteric tradtions.
"In the scholarly literature, the term designates
a series of historically related religious
currents including Gnosticism, Hermetism, magic,
astrology, alchemy, Rosicrucianism, the Christian
Theosophy of Jacob Böhme and his followers,
Illuminism, Mesmerism, Swedenborgianism,
Spiritualism, and the theosophical currents
associated with Helena Blavatsky and her
followers." (Wikipedia). Personally I view any
approach that looks beyond the literal,
socio-cultural "words" and towards what it is
that those words point "at" to be esoterically
inclined. The most esoteric drop all pretense
about importance in the words themselves (e.g.
debating "Jesus or Allah" would be like debating "Kirk or Picard").
[Krimel]
But I find it hard to complain that an
institution should strive to perpetuate itself.
[Arlo]
I don't make this complaint. But would you
complain about a hospital that strives to
perpetuate itself by euthanizing its patients to
harvest their organs to sell on the black market?
Or a school that strives to perpetuate itself by
deliberately uneducating poor kids to feed the needs of sweatshops?
[Krimel]
Especially within religious institution, even if
[personal power and control] are the true
motivations, at least the arguments are couched
in terms of the underlying ideology.
[Arlo]
I'd say that makes it all the worse.
[Krimel]
Nor am I sure that Mystics don't build the kind
of walls you mention. Paul was a mystic and the
chief architect of Christianity. Mohamed was a
mystic and he not only founded Islam but the
dynasty that oversaw it in its early days.
[Arlo]
Well this harkens back to what I was saying to
Michael. These people viewed the mystical
esotericism as available only to an initiated
few. The "walls" the created served the dual-fold
purpose of (1) providing esoteric pointers to the
Wise, and (2) providing exoteric structure to
control the masses. Paul was, in this example,
outright about the distinction between serving milk or meat.
[Krimel]
Pirsig is right, there is always tension between
the prophet and the priest. Call them the yin and
yang of institutional theology.
[Arlo]
I'd prefer to look past both the Yin and the Yang
and at the field in which they spin.
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