At 09:20 PM 2/7/2009, you wrote:
At 06:47 PM 2/7/2009, you wrote:
> > > > > > > >[Marsha]
> > > > > > > >Within the MOQ, theism, god and religion are static patterns
of
> > > > > > > > value.
> > > > > > > >[Krimel]
> > > > > > > >What is a static pattern?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Marsha:
> > > > > > >A conceptual construct, or a static pattern of value. Do you
> > > > > like paradox?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >[Krimel]
> > > > > > >What is a conceptual construct?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >[Marsha]
> > > > > >Why don't you tell me. You know you want to...
> > > > > >
> > > > > >[Krimel]
> > > > > >Sounds like just a thought.
> > > > >
> > > > >Marsha
> > > > >A mental construct, a static pattern of value.
> > > > >
> > > > >[Krimel]
> > > > >Constructed of what?
> > > >
> > > >Marsha
> > > >Constructed of emptiness which dependent arising.
> > > >
> > > >[Krimel]
> > > >"Constructed" of emptiness? Emptiness arising? Dependant on what?
> > >
> > >[Marsha]
> > >Dependent arising:
> > >
> > >This is the understanding that any phenomenon exists only because of
> > >the existence of other phenomena in an incredibly complex web of
> > >cause and effect covering time past, time present and time future.
> > >This concept of a web is symbolized by Indra's net, a
> > >multidimensional spider's web on which lies an infinite amount of dew
> > >drops or jewels, and in these are reflected the reflections of all
> > >the other drops of dew ad infinitum.
> > >
> > >Stated in another way, everything depends on everything else. A human
> > >being's existence in any given moment is dependent on the condition
> > >of everything else in the world at that moment, but in an equally
> > >significant way, the condition of everything in the world in that
> > >moment depends conversely on the character and condition of that
> > >human being. Everything in the Universe is interconnected through the
> > >web of cause and effect such that the whole and the parts are
> > >mutually interdependent. The character and condition of entities at
> > >any given time are intimately connected with the character and
> > >condition of all other entities that superficially may appear to be
> > >unconnected or unrelated.
> > >
> > >[Krimel]
> > >But if it's all just concepts from whence do they arises? Other
concepts?
> > >And where do they reside? More concepts? What sort of "existence" are
you
> > >talking about? What is a phenomenon?
> >
> >Marsha
> >All conventional phenomena are conceptually designated, depending for
> >whatever identity and existence they have on such designation (static
> >pattern of value), and that this merely imputed status is their
> >ultimate nature.
> >
> >[Krimel]
> >So conventional phenomena are more concepts? But they have an ultimate
> >nature beyond being concepts?
>
>[Marsha]
>Things from there own side are free from imputation. Nothing can be
>said from their side.
>
>[Krimel]
>Which side is which? A thing? I thought there were no things, just
concepts?
>Which side can nothing be said from? Who or what would do the imputing?
[Marsha]
External phenomena from their own side are free from imputation.
Nothing can be said from the external side.
[Krimel]
How can phenomena be anywhere but inside? Isn't the external side a pattern?
Why can't we talk about it?
[Marsha]
No value in talking about it anymore. Muster up some scientific
materialism for the crowd.
[Marsha after some sleep]
I apologize for the last remark. Being tired and cranky is not an
excuse for ingratitude. Thank you for the opportunity to answer
your questions. It is helpful to test my understanding. I am grateful.
_____________
QUESTION EVERYTHING!!!
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