Message: 3 Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 11:40:49 -0800 (PST)
From: X Acto <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [MD] The Quality/MOQ dichotomy To: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Krimel, Craig, Relfexes may not be changed but associative responses may be. One may be conditioned from resonding to pain with tears to responding with anger. So in an associative manner reflexes may be learned to an extent, martial arts excells in this way. -Ron ________________________________ From: Krimel <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Sunday, March 1, 2009 7:31:08 PM Subject: Re: [MD] The Quality/MOQ dichotomy > [Krimel] > you can't actually learn a reflex. [Craig] An infant is taken into a laboratory filled with objects at various temperatures.? If the infant touches anything too hot or too cold, it recoils.? If it touches anything at 72F, it receives an electric shock & recoils. Eventually the infant is returned to the world.? It continues to recoil whenever it feels something at 72F..? Is it act ing to move towards betterment? [Krimel] Please note the infant has not learned a reflex here. The infants respond to painful stimuli instinctively. If the infant learns that 72F is always paired with shock, it will avoid 72F objects to the extent that it can discriminate them. Upon returning to a world where 72F is not paired with shock, I would excepted the avoidance behavior to decrease over time since the contingencies that support the response are no longer in effect. This is called extinction. In both situations the behavior drifts toward harmony with the environment. David Swift says: When I speak of learned reflexes, I'm also talking about responding to specific temperatures al a Skinner, but the Gettysburg Address is more what I have in mind. What did you have for breakfast? You didn't know that there was going to be a test so you didn't study but you can still remember what you had for breakfast. You learned that information because of a simple reflex , I call the learning reflex, in response to the emotion you felt at breakfast. Burnt? yuck. Full English? yes. You walk around all day learning all sorts of seemingly trivial stuff. Where did I park the car? What you had for breakfast is a flood of remembered feelings mostly visual and taste perceptions but also pleasure and perhaps nausea? I call that flood of feelings, reflexively produced in response to the question, "What did you have for breakfast?" a learned reflex. It's how we remember direct experience and recreate its effect on us. -david swift I've got a favorite quote too. We are all insane and trying to impose our version of insanity on the rest of the world. Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
