> [Krimel} > You call this reductionist. I suppose it looks that way from the Top Down. > But it you start where is actually seems to start, at the bottom, it > looks more like emergence, from simple phantom particles to sequoias.
[Platt] Emergence from simple phantom particles to sequoias. How? Why? Shazam! A miracle! > [Krimel] > I see complex order emerging spontaneously from the simple and chaotic. [Platt] Order emerging spontaneously. How? Why? Shazam! Another miracle Both science and religion assume an orderly world. Science says this order evolved from the bottom up over time through self-organization and chance. Religion says this order came from top down from the mind of God who is eternal. Top down or bottom up. Both based on miracles. Both based on faith. How to decide? "In the end, Occam's razor compels me to put my money on design, but, as always in matters of metaphysics, the decision is largely a matter of taste rather than scientific judgment." --- Physicist Paul Davies A third alternative: "Dynamic Quality is the pre-intellectual cutting edge of realty, THE SOURCE Of ALL THINGS, completely simple and always new." (Lila, 9 -- caps added for emphasis) For my taste, the third alternative is best. [Krimel] So the choices are: A) "Poof" B) A set of interlocking theories that explain the relationship of every observable phenomena from particles to sequoias in terms of the conditions that give rise to them and their patterns of interaction. Most of this can be described not only mathematically but empirically. It allows an understanding of most of the processes that have been going on, back to the first instant in which it is even possible to conceive of time. It shows empirically and mathematically how order forms and become static in the face of the pure dynamic quality of absolute chaos. It tells us about the unimaginably small and the inconceivably large. It explains why we feel love and fear and how many seconds of burn a space shuttle needs to re-enter Earth's atmosphere. It expands our conscious awareness into the stratosphere and lets us speak to each from opposite sides of the planet. In the spirit of Occam's it offers and ever shrinking number of simple concepts to explain all of this without the need for some supernatural outside Other. All of this in as much fine detail that people spend their lives exploring even its most obscure reaches. It invites questions, critical thinking and a healthy degree of skepticism. It invites us to exploit skills that every newborn is biologically prepared to do: Check it out! Mess with it. See what happens... Repeat. And because it doesn't explain absolutely everything to you personally in terms you can understand you want to chuck the whole business in favor of "Poof". Somebody out there loves you. How sweet! Einstein, Wilson and Skinner or the Flying Spaghetti Monster? I think you have made the right choice. It would be a shame to let a little studying ruin your meal. Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
