On Mar 10, 2009, at 9:15:07 PM, "Ham Priday" <[email protected]> wrote: Platt, Michael, Andre, Steve and all --
Aren't we carrying "Faith" a bit too far by applying it to Science? After all, if it requires faith to accept empirical evidence as factual, then you might as well say that all experience or reasoning is a matter of faith. I think Steve said it best in his recent post to Michael: > Everyone agrees that proof is beside the point. What do we > have proof of? The question is whether or not we have good > reason to believe. When people have good reasons, they use > these reasons to try to justify their beliefs. When people's reasons fail > them, at that point they appeal to faith. Human knowledge is relative because it is derived from experience. That means man does not have access to absolute proof or absolute truth. However, there is a difference between accepting something on faith and reasoning to a conclusion based on the evidence. You seldom hear a scientist claim he has incontrovertible proof for a physical principle or theory, let alone the ability to discover ultimate truth. Yet, how many times has a preacher or philosopher assured you that a doctrine or maxim is "infallible", "self-evident", or "irrefutable"? The methodology of Science is observation, verification, and conclusion, which is always open to falsification. In fairness, I think this effectively removes Science from the realm of Faith. You can say that the scientist is limited by his objectivity or intellectual capacity, or that metaphysical hypothesis is outside the scope of Science. You can even say that the reality of Science is not the "true" reality. But it is really stretching Faith to say that it's the basis of scientific conclusions. (In my opinion.) --Ham When I speak of Faith, I think I am referring to the personal notion that how I interpret what I see, feel, etc., is truly real, and if I was so inclined to share it to those I saw as blind (or in a cave), I would give my life for it, because it is so obviously real. Fortunately, I do not have to do that because I find like minded people who can sense this reality in my way, in fact most of those that I run into do (some others are locked away, so as not to distract me from my faith). If others share with me my faith (using funny lines on paper or sounds from their mouths that have meaning to me) it creates a harmonious feeling within, and strengthens that faith. The feeling of the world as one of cause and effect created through time, has been taught to me, through others, my interpretation of experience, or maybe by something else, as True. I then extrapolate this understanding and feeling to things that I haven't even experienced, and probably never will, but can tuck that extrapolation away as further proof. I can experience things that others talk about using their similar faith, and it makes me comfortably vindicated. I use my faith to interpret things in a way that fit my faith. "Why yes, those sets bones (at least you say they are bones) do look the same, and you say that one set is older (and obviously smaller) than the other (as measured by your special techniques which I know nothing about), and you say that there was a morphing process that turned one into the other. Yes that makes perfect sense because it fits with what somebody told me at school, and, look at me, I used to be smaller, and I morphed into something larger, it's so obvious. Oh, and you tell me that the newer one is better, that certainly makes me feel good because I'm pretty new, thank you. Wow, how do you know so much? I'll follow you anywhere, show me what else I can read in the scriptures, and how I can apply this theory to everything I experience, it's so fulfilling!" Once I truly believe it is real I do not question it anymore. I can easily behave as if it were real and soon forget that it started simply as an interpretation of my sensory input. It's really so simple to forget, I don't realize I've done it. I've experienced some realities which don't quite fit the comfortable puzzle I created, and writing them down on paper, is difficult. I haven't learned how to express them. So I travel that high road alone for a while waiting for the language. A forum such as MoQ teaches me some of the language and perhaps how I can put the words together, so that once again I can get a harmonious feeling of expressing and sharing that which I know to be true with like-minded others. I don't know how else to put it. Willblake2 Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
