Michael, Perhaps what you are not taking into consideration is your own understanding. If you want to focus on the semantic of the word, yes, any word therefore is an affimation. But quality, is a word we use for experience nothing more. Experience before we have thoughts or concepts. Not an entity or a force for they are ways of conceptualizing. When we say that quality is indefinable we mean that our definitions and understandings are limited to linguistic and artistic expression of our own unique individual perspective which may only be shared by the affirmation you speak of. Faith as per your second definition, is unconditional belief. This is not how the term is viewed, in fact this is what is so difficult to get accross to new comers because they are accustom to viewing concepts in this manner, metaphysically. MoQ is best understood as a philosophy of perception not a faith in a concept. -Ron
________________________________ From: Michael Poloukhine <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 12:31:45 PM Subject: Re: [MD] Faith/Skepticism > ?[Michael] > > Again: faith = affirmation absent proof. > > Ron: > You seem to be implying abstract symbols which have no correspondance > with experience. Math and God may fall into this catagory. Quality, as we > understand it, and I have stated before, is experience. You experience > do you not? you react to your environment do you not? these are "proof" > of quality. We bathe in the proof of quality at every moment. > This is not faith this is be-ing. did you have to have faith to be born? > must you have faith to hunger, to sleep, to deficate? MP: No, no and again no. You, along with the rest, continue to miss my point about the two definitions of faith and how it relates to my point. www.dictionary.com faith -noun 1. confidence or trust in a person or thing: faith in another's ability. 2. belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact. I admit, agree, affirm and believe as you all seem to that one does not have to *have* "faith (definition 1)" *in* Quality to experience it or even affirm it. I am saying it *takes* "faith (definition 2)" *to* affirm that these experiences are what they are as a result of Quality (as understood in the MoQ) rather than just experiences in SOM. This seems to me to be a very simple linguistic distinction to make and I am a little taken aback at just how [reluctant or incapable?] you all are to make it. You are all pretty intelligent by my observation, and that leads me to the conclusion that the failure to make the distinction is one of reluctance; an intellectual decision NOT to make the distinction, hence static. MP ---- "Don't believe everything you think." Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
