Platt,
Does RMP specifically use the word 'progress'? Is freedom always
progress? From what point-of-view?
Marsha
At 09:11 AM 4/14/2009, you wrote:
Hi Marsha, KO, DMB, et al:
The big thing missing from current evolution theories and applications is
any notion of things getting better or, as we MOQer's believe, progress
towards greater freedom and versatility. It has always bothered me that
precious little attention is paid to ever expanding consciousness over time
from the first little wiggle of life to the worldly mind of a Mozart or an
Einstein. In other words, science, totally dependent on measurable surface
data, has largely been unable to deal with the steady evolutionary
expansion of interior awareness, the real indicator of Dynamic progress,
"Are you better off as a woman than a mouse?" The MOQ answer: "You betcha."
That's progress!
Platt
> At 06:33 AM 4/14/2009, you wrote:
> >Hi Marsha,
> >
> >i think religion still has more control of humans than science - can
> never
> >measure really - but look at the wealth and influence of the Catholic
> church
> >let alone Christianity as a whole and then the other religions.
>
> Hello KO,
>
> Science is defining and restructuring everything,
> everything from sex to food, from medicine to
> economics. Theistic religions have very little
> control of science. The fact that theism is
> forced to use ID as a proof of god makes it look
> like science is on top. And the fact that if you
> even question the reigning axiom, evolution, you
> are called a heretic. What is wrong with this picture?
>
>
>
> >Also - evolution is a fact - with a theory on top. I cant put into words
> but
> >i think there is something so fundamental in Darwins observations that
> they
> >will remain unchanged except for enhancements.
>
> Evolution is a static pattern of value. You
> _think_ the patterns you are exposed to. It
> seems the modern cultural glasses have a thick
> evolutionary tint coating them. Geeeeeezzzz.
>
>
> Marsha
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> >2009/4/14 MarshaV <[email protected]>
> >
> > >
> > > DMB,
> > >
> > > I am not sure I disagreed with Krimel, but suggested that his was one
> way
> > > to look at it.
> > >
> > > I think there is a danger of overlaying the evolutionary-pattern on
> > > everything that wiggles in front of Science. Like all theories, it
> will be
> > > outlived by a better theory. There seems to be two religions wanting
> to
> > > orchestrate patterns these days, theism which is the weaker, and
> Science
> > > which is the stronger and totally subsidized and supported by the
> state and
> > > corporate structures, and science has domain
> > over every aspect of our lives.
> > > I think it was Andre, that has used 'dust in the wind' as a very good
> MOQ
> > > metaphor, static patterns are like dust, DQ is like the wind, and
> all
> > > patterns, and that includes theories, are dust in the wind.
> > >
> > > William James and Alan Watts were both very good men.
> > >
> > > It's a pleasure to disagree with you for a change, David.
> > >
> > >
> > > Marsha
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > At 06:45 PM 4/13/2009, you wrote:
> > >
> > > Krimel said to Marsha:
> > >> ...the explosion of new applications of evolutionary theory that you
> cite
> > >> is clear evidence of the dynamic quality of the theory. It is
> static
> > >> patterns that often give rise to ever more interesting examples of
> dynamic
> > >> quality. For example language is entirely
> > composed of static pattern and yet
> > >> out of it grow that infinite generativity of speech and writing. It
> is in
> > >> fact the presence of static patterns that
> > give rise to ever more astounding
> > >> examples of dynamic quality.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> dmb says:
> > >> Hey, here's something marvelous and rare. I agree with you. The
> explosion
> > >> of applications isn't just evidence of the dynamic quality of the
> theory,
> > >> though. It is also evidence for the theory of dynamic quality. I
> mean, the
> > >> fact that evolutionary theory can be applied so widely supports the
> MOQ's
> > >> expansion to include literally everything. As the old SNL fake news
> joke
> > >> shows, the process of evolution operates differently in areas
> outside
> > >> biology. "The world's leading evolutionary biologist died today...
> And was
> > >> replaced by a larger, stronger evolutionary biologist." Or to use
> your
> > >> example, words themselves don't strive to
> > survive by tooth and claw and yet
> > >> the theory can be adapted to language. Some
> > scientists already describe the
> > >> unfolding of the physical universe in terms of evolution and they do
> so, I
> > >> suppose, without any help from the MOQ. Seems like things are
> generally
> > >> moving in that direction and the diversity of applications will
> probably
> > >> continue to grow.
> > >> In a Alan Watts podcast I heard recently, he explained that the East
> and
> > >> West are divided by a difference in their
> > basic conceptions of how the world
> > >> came to be. We in the West have what's called a "ceramic" conception
> of
> > >> creation, where inert stuff is shaped or made as a potter does. God
> is the
> > >> creator and we are among the created things. You know, Adam was made
> from
> > >> the dust. In this conception reality is a collection of artifacts.
> Made by
> > >> who and for what purpose? In the East,
> > reality isn't a collection of nouns.
> > >> Its a verb. Creatures aren't made. They come into being through
> action,
> > >> through processes in which they are actors. Reality is a dance, not
> a
> > >> structure. It comes to be from within, so to speak, rather than
> being
> > >> manufactured by something outside itself. I
> > mention this because I think the
> > >> MOQ's expansion of evolution to include literally everything fits
> more
> > >> comfortably with the Eastern conception. Imagine Darwinism in that
> context
> > >> and that'd be close to the what the MOQ is saying. Or so it seems to
> me.
> > >>
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