Hi Marsha, Kaiser Permanente, an HMO that runs its own hospitals and Clinics, is running an ad on television that has a haunting Melody: "When I grow up I want to be an Old Woman" playing to a view of dancing ancestor-grandmothers. Impressive!
Joe On 4/21/09 12:39 PM, "MarshaV" <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hi Joe, > > The experience of my husband's death was > different for me. During the last 6 weeks while > I was primary caretaker, I felt a spiritual and > physical connection to all my > ancestor-grandmothers. It was as if I was doing > what women had always done, care for the > dying. My husbands passing was peace-filled too. > > Emptiness is experience without me, and there can > be a certain kind of seeing, or other sensing, freshly. > > > Marsha > > > > At 02:48 PM 4/21/2009, you wrote: >> On Monday 20 April 2009 2:34 PM Marsha writes: >> >> Hello Joe, >>> >>> Oh yes, Case's 'The Tao in Four Parts' is >>> absolutely wonderful. I am so happy to see it, >>> even in part, posted again. But for some reason >>> The Way doesn't work for me, while Emptiness >>> does. I previously mentioned that I had been >>> bitten by the Buddhist logic, and while 'I' >>> didn't suffer total destruction, Emptiness now >>> seems to run in my blood. I bet there are many paths. >>> >>> >>> Marsha >> >> Hi Marsha, >> >> My experience with ³emptiness² came as Louise lay dying. She was at home >> hooked up to a lot of stuff. A couple of days before she died we had a >> swishing party at her bedside. Some of my family were present and I had a >> bottle of champagne given to me by a friend, who suggested that I would know >> when it was the right time to pour it. The party was a success. Louise >> participated and was laughingly chided for swallowing some champagne. My >> sense of Louise was that she was staring at emptiness. A couple of days >> later the feeling intensified, that she wanted emptiness, and here she was >> hooked up to all this stuff. I asked the nurse to unhook her. Her face >> was very peaceful as she passed. >> >> I have embraced emptiness for the past 2 years. A couple of weeks ago I was >> getting ready to go sing in choir and a friend called to ask if I could pick >> her up at the car dealership where she had dropped her car off for repairs. >> I had time. On the way home a car ahead of me spun out and went head on >> into a retaining wall, bounced off and drifted back across the road. The >> driver got out and stood beside the car with smoke pouring out of the >> interior. I guess the airbag had deployed. The lady I picked up got out of >> the car to offer her help to the driver. I went on to my singing >> appointment. As I drove away emptiness was present. I did not know where I >> was or how to get home. I made a few wrong turns until I finally decided >> that the direction I was going though unfamiliar was the right direction.. >> I passed buildings whose color and shapes were so beautiful, that I had >> never noticed before. Strange! >> >> >> >> Joe >> >> >> >> On 4/20/09 2:34 PM, "MarshaV" <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> At 04:00 PM 4/20/2009, you wrote: >>>> On Monday 20 April 2009 11:56 AM Ham writes to Platt: >>>> >>>> <snip> >>>>> Rather, it's the principle that value sensibility is >>>>> proprietary to the individual, not an attribute of the universe. >>>> <snip> >>>> >>>> On 5 March 2009 Case¹s Answer to Marsha: >>>> >>>> Still given the teleological bent of so many >> MoQers and the mystical bent of >>>> others I think The Way is a much better way >> of naming the unnamable Quality.. >>>> It implies a path or a journey, movement through space and time. A path >>>> wanders over and around obstacles. We see it ahead of us and it guides our >>>> steps but we still do not know where it is >> leading or if we will get there. >>>> The Way is a mystery but we are tuned by nature to recognize it in the >>>> patterns of meaningful coincidence that arise with every step we take. >>>> >>>> When the Shit hits the Fan >>>> Hold your breath, close your eyes and walk on. >>>> >>>> End of Part Four >>>> >>>> Hi All, >>>> >>>> I like the TAO. >>>> >>>> Joe >>>> On 4/20/09 11:56 AM, "Ham Priday" <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hi Platt -- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> I have probably missed the point of your questions since it >>>>>> seems obvious to me and probably to you that we as >>>>>> human beings currently living in the West are much better off >>>>>> than we were, say, in the Middle Ages or, going back even >>>>>> further, when we were painting symbols of antelope in the caves >>>>>> of Lascaux. As for the obvious "better offness" of morality, >>>>>> we no longer live in a world where might makes right but in a >>>>>> world of laws protecting individual rights to be free of social >>>>>> (government) oppression -- rights that as you know are now >>>>>> being threatened. Unfortunately the path to >>>>>> betterness (individual liberty/personal responsibility) is never >>>>>> without reversals and setbacks such as we are witnessing today. >>>>> >>>>> I guess I've narrowed down my "mission" here >>>> to a single purpose: persuading >>>>> the MoQers that value and morality start >> with the individual subject. The >>>>> problem with you folks -- and that includes >>>> you, Platt -- is that Pirsig has >>>>> rejected subjectivity and you are all >> trying to get around it by impugning >>>>> value to the insentient universe. This won't work epistemologically, >>>>> metaphysically, or as a morality system. >>>>> >>>>> This isn't a political mission -- heaven knows we've been beating that to >>>>> death for years. Rather, it's the principle that value sensibility is >>>>> proprietary to the individual, not an >> attribute of the universe. Value is >>>>> perceived differentially by the human being (organism) which >>>>> intellectualizes (rationalizes) it as an "esthetic/moral spectrum" from >>>>> goodness or excellence to evil or banality. What we experience are >>>>> objectivized manifestations of these values, and morality represents an >>>>> effort to ensure that human society >> survives and flourishes in the same way >>>>> that biological instincts assure the >> survival of non-valuistic life forms.. >>>>> >>>>> I believe that Mr. Pirsig was aiming for >> the same objective when decided to >>>>> make LILA "An Inquiry into Morals". What >>>> muddied the waters was his refusal >>>>> to acknowledge subjective awareness as the >>>> locus of value, replacing it with >>>>> an evolutionary system of levels and patterns which, in effect, turns >>>>> process and relations into "static" phenomena. >>>>> >>>>> Back in the '50s, I was intrigued by a >> small paperback in which a biologist >>>>> outlined a moralistic philosophy based on attraction and desire. As a >>>>> social moralist, you may find his line of reasoning of interest: >>>>> >>>>> "How much more certain a man is to do right >> if he not only knows what it is >>>>> but WANTS to do it! This want guards him far more strongly against wrong >>>>> than does the enforcement of his loyalty by law or obligation. A stong >>>>> desire, a goal he seeks, is more powerful in >>>> the end than these. The lesson >>>>> we must learn is that the only sure way to make man moral is through his >>>>> motives, to make him WANT to do the things he OUGHT to do. The means to >>>>> save society may be as simple--and as >> difficult--as that. What makes us do >>>>> evil is that evil, for one reason or another, attracts us more rthan good >>>>> does. Not until virtue is attractive FOR ITS OWN SAKE will men cleave >>>>> always to it. Our motive, our emotions, our MOVINGS must be elevated if >>>>> life is to reach a higher moral >> plane. Many reformers think that emotions >>>>> are a hindrance to man's attainment of the >> ideal society, and look forward >>>>> to the day when reason only, unclouded by >> feeling, will guide his conduct.. >>>>> That day will never come, for emotion gives >> the motive power for behavior.. >>>>> ...Science can help develop techniques by >> which the good life can be found, >>>>> but we shall never attain to it unless we earnestly DESIRE to do so." >>>>> -- Edmund W. Sinnott: "The Biology of the Spirit" (1957) >>>>> >>>>> For all I know, Dr. Sinnott's little book may have sparked my interest in >>>>> human value. (I no longer >> remember.) However, if you compare this simple >>>>> concept with Pirsig's non-subjective, >>>> non-emotional, levels-driven universe, >>>>> you may understand the reason for my discontent. >>>>> >>>>> Essentially yours, >>>>> Ham >>>>> >> >>> . >>> _____________ >>> >>> Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars.......... >>> . >>> . >>> >>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>> Archives: >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ >> >> >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > . > _____________ > > Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars.......... > . > . > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
