Hi Marsha, How would you describe group reality?
Thanks, Willblake2 On May 8, 2009, at 10:08:56 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: Will, For me, reality is Quality (Dynamic/static). Marsha At 11:46 AM 5/8/2009, you wrote: >At 10:56 AM 5/8/2009, you wrote: >>Hi Marhs, >> >>Wonderful to include you in this discussion. Sorry if I use the word system. >> >>I believe, like Pirsig, that there are different levels of >>interaction each creating >>its own reality (if you will). For example, each nerve cell has >>its own reality. >>The group of nerve cells creates another, which we call the mind (a >>system). In the same >>way, each of us have our own reality, but he group reality is >>separate. We cannot >>experience that reality in the same way a nerve cannot sense the mind. > >Will, > >Before I say too much I will need to know what you mean by >'reality'? It can be a tricky word. And in case of the nerve >cell, and the group of nerve cells are you saying their reality is subjective? > > >>Perhaps the flaw is thinking that we can determine group reality, >>which results >>in leaders thinking they can control it. Adopting through insight >>takes care of >>what is inside, but let's not stop there. > >Wouldn't the quality insight lead to the best action? Or what do >you mean by 'let's not stop there'? > > >Marsha > > >>Cheers, >>Willblake2 >> >> >>On May 8, 2009, at 3:39:25 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote >> >>Greetings Will, >> >>How many times can the pattern of reaching for quality be repeated >>before it becomes embedded in the social consciousness? Not another >>system!!! Exchanged through dialogue??? Not another system with >>this or that puny little dictator wanting to scurry to the top to >>define the choices. How about adopted through insight? >> >> >>Marsha >> >> >>At 01:11 AM 5/8/2009, you wrote: >> >Returning to the old way of thinking, the Upanishads, We can easily >> >get into a semantic >> >debate here. What is the difference between philosophy and so >> >called "mystical thought". >> >I believe that there is an agreed upon difference. Metaphysics can >> >easily become >> >ones own perception only, are we just a brain in a vat? >> > >> >The trouble with that for me, is, it becomes entirely personalized >> >and of no use >> >to social consciousness. What is good? Need anyone tell us? My >> >interpretation >> >of the metaphysical endeavor is to try to put together a system >> which can be >> >exchanged through dialogue. A group awareness, if you will, that >> is separate >> >from the personal awareness. I believe such a thing exists. >> > >> >Are there laws outside of our experience? Do we simply create the >> >world around us? >> >Which is a more useful way of thinking from a sociological point of view? >> > >> >I don't think these are new ideas, but perhaps worth another round. >> > >> >Cheers, >> > >> >Willblake2 >> > >> >On May 7, 2009, at 4:48:12 PM, "Steve Peterson" >> ><[email protected]> wrote: >> > > >> > > the end of purely abstract philosophy at least. >> > > but yes in a way most academic philosophy is becoming redundant as the >> > > existential takes precedence over the 'essential' (by which i mean the >> > > illogical idea of immutable 'real' laws, facts etc that are >> > > ontologically prior to experience). >> > > >> > > the existential is direct, dynamic, integrated, >> > > mythopoetic...philosophy now moves toward direct engagement: >> > > facilition over inculcation. >> > > >> > > philosophy become playful, creative, personal. >> > > >> > >> >Would you also say, "Pirsigian"? Or was Pirsig hopping on board an >> >existing trend in philosophy? >> > >> > >> >Moq_Discuss mailing list >> >Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> >http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> >Archives: >> >http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> >http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ >> > >> > >> >Moq_Discuss mailing list >> >Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> >http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> >Archives: >> >http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> >http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ >> >>. >>_____________ >> >>Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars......... >>. >>. >> >>Moq_Discuss mailing list >>Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>Archives: >>http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ >> >> >>Moq_Discuss mailing list >>Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>Archives: >>http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > >. >_____________ > >Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars......... >. >. >Moq_Discuss mailing list >Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >Archives: >http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ . _____________ Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars......... . . Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
