Greetings Will2,
I don't know about nerve cells. The MOQ is about patterns, and it's
patterns that represent our conventional reality, and it is about
Dynamic Quality which is spontaneous interaction with the now. I
have reread your post: 08 May 2009 01:11 a.m. and I do not understand
what you are getting at. I liked what Gav said about philosophy
being "playful, creative, personal". You suggested 'putting together
a system' and then using a group of cells as an example, and I do not
understand the analogy. Not another hero, and not another system.
What is good? It is quality, and it doesn't come from a system
telling us but from a direct experience and a direct response. I
will hope that a new world-view will come from repeated insights like
the mythical hundredth monkey.
I will be quiet now, but I hope Gav will say more, for he seems to
have insight.
Marsha
At 08:49 PM 5/8/2009, you wrote:
Hi Marsha,
I would define reality in this post discussion as that which we
experience with our minds. Is it possible that group
consciousness experiences the same reality. Again,
I will use my analogy of the brain. Each nerve has its
own reality, which is separate, and not felt (by the nerve),
from the consciousness of the mind. While we cannot
feel this consciousness, we can discern its presence, just as
we can discern the presence of other dimensions or imaginary
numbers (the square root of negative one). While the square
root of negative one has no real meaning to our present
experience, we can use it successfully in mathematics to
make real predictions.
I think the quality personal insight is wholly separate from the
group consciousness insight. One cannot feel the other.
Cheers,
Willblake2
On May 8, 2009, at 8:46:01 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote:
At 10:56 AM 5/8/2009, you wrote:
>Hi Marhs,
>
>Wonderful to include you in this discussion. Sorry if I use the word system.
>
>I believe, like Pirsig, that there are different levels of
>interaction each creating
>its own reality (if you will). For example, each nerve cell has its
>own reality.
>The group of nerve cells creates another, which we call the mind (a
>system). In the same
>way, each of us have our own reality, but he group reality is
>separate. We cannot
>experience that reality in the same way a nerve cannot sense the mind.
Will,
Before I say too much I will need to know what you mean by
'reality'? It can be a tricky word. And in case of the nerve
cell, and the group of nerve cells are you saying their reality is
subjective?
>Perhaps the flaw is thinking that we can determine group reality,
>which results
>in leaders thinking they can control it. Adopting through insight
>takes care of
>what is inside, but let's not stop there.
Wouldn't the quality insight lead to the best action? Or what do you
mean by 'let's not stop there'?
Marsha
>Cheers,
>Willblake2
>
>
>On May 8, 2009, at 3:39:25 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote
>
>Greetings Will,
>
>How many times can the pattern of reaching for quality be repeated
>before it becomes embedded in the social consciousness? Not another
>system!!! Exchanged through dialogue??? Not another system with
>this or that puny little dictator wanting to scurry to the top to
>define the choices. How about adopted through insight?
>
>
>Marsha
>
>
>At 01:11 AM 5/8/2009, you wrote:
> >Returning to the old way of thinking, the Upanishads, We can easily
> >get into a semantic
> >debate here. What is the difference between philosophy and so
> >called "mystical thought".
> >I believe that there is an agreed upon difference. Metaphysics can
> >easily become
> >ones own perception only, are we just a brain in a vat?
> >
> >The trouble with that for me, is, it becomes entirely personalized
> >and of no use
> >to social consciousness. What is good? Need anyone tell us? My
> >interpretation
> >of the metaphysical endeavor is to try to put together a system
which can be
> >exchanged through dialogue. A group awareness, if you will, that
is separate
> >from the personal awareness. I believe such a thing exists.
> >
> >Are there laws outside of our experience? Do we simply create the
> >world around us?
> >Which is a more useful way of thinking from a sociological point of view?
> >
> >I don't think these are new ideas, but perhaps worth another round.
> >
> >Cheers,
> >
> >Willblake2
> >
> >On May 7, 2009, at 4:48:12 PM, "Steve Peterson"
> ><[email protected]> wrote:
> > >
> > > the end of purely abstract philosophy at least.
> > > but yes in a way most academic philosophy is becoming redundant as the
> > > existential takes precedence over the 'essential' (by which i mean the
> > > illogical idea of immutable 'real' laws, facts etc that are
> > > ontologically prior to experience).
> > >
> > > the existential is direct, dynamic, integrated,
> > > mythopoetic...philosophy now moves toward direct engagement:
> > > facilition over inculcation.
> > >
> > > philosophy become playful, creative, personal.
> > >
> >
> >Would you also say, "Pirsigian"? Or was Pirsig hopping on board an
> >existing trend in philosophy?
> >
> >
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>_____________
>
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>.
>.
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