> Ian:
> > (1) we ARE "the government".
> Nick previously:
> No I am not. The government is a coercive territorial monopoly. I want no
> part of that. I'm for liberty.
>
> Andre:
> And if you are for liberty then 250 million of your fellow countrymen/ women
> are so as well. And 'What the Metaphysics of Quality indicates is that the
> twentieth-century intellectual faith in man's basic goodness as spontaneous
> and natural is disastrously naive.
Nick:
Well quality is the telos, and criminals exist to prove it. As I said in
previous post, the
NAP is not about a utopia.
Andre:
> The ideal of a harmonious society ( in
> which everyone is able to excercise their liberty) in which everyone
> cooperates happily with everyone else for the mutual good of all is
> devastating fiction' (Lila, my additions).
Nick:
That's why there is justice. Are you saying you are a criminal and
willingly
choose to initiate physical coercion? If so, then I understand I'm trying to
convince a criminal to turn over a new leaf, or I'll wait in self-defense and
take
care of it that way if need be.
Andre:
> Government is a social pattern of value.It ensures, protects and makes
> possible. To even suggets that you are not government means you are being
> very naive and denying your own existence.
Nick:
Nope, don't change the meaning of government that has been around and
abundantly
defined since ancient greece. The government/State is coercive by nature. I
live in a
civil society. Big difference.
Andre:
> Seems to me you want to skip the social level all together. You, my friend,
> want to go back to the laws of the jungle exercising your liberty.
> I wonder how far you get. My guess is not very.
Nick:
Nope, I ascribe to a moral intellectual principle called the NAP. I live in a
civil society, and you
advocate a law of the jungle government/State that is coercive by nature. You
see,
in a civil society we sit, negotiate, and reason with each other. But somebody
advocating
for a territorial coercive monopoly government/State is a criminal.
Nick
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